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Interrupted Journey is the account of Betty and Barney Hill, most of it as related under

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hypnosis.

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Much of the book is in effect a transcript of the tape recording made by their psychiatrist,

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Dr. Benjamin Simon of Boston, during their treatment.

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Now, I don't want to go too far into this story because the story is far more fascinatingly

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told firsthand by our guests, who tonight are Betty and Barney Hill, who will be speaking

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to us long distance from Portsmouth, New Hampshire.

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But before we introduce Betty and Barney on the telephone, I would like you to meet our

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friend and your friend, the noted Cleveland ufologist and a member of NYCAP and also APRO

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and several other organizations, I'm sure, and himself an author and distinguished lecturer,

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Mr. Earl Nett.

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He is an experienced investigator, also he's a fascinating guy to have on as a guest, and

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I never feel right doing any kind of a program about unidentified flying objects unless Earl

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is with me.

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Tonight, I'm particularly anxious to talk to Betty and Barney Hill, but before we do, I

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just wanted to tell you that the introduction to the book, The Interrupted Journey, is written,

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as I think I mentioned, by Benjamin Simon.

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And the reason for writing the introduction was to give the reader the documentation and

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the authority from the psychiatrist to reprint in certain sections of the book the transcript

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of his treatment of both Mr. and Mrs. Hill.

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I think it's very important to realize that this is not a story that has come from a person

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who feels they've had this experience alone.

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It rather comes not only from them, but it is documented as told to their psychiatrist

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under the influence of hypnosis.

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Hypnosis was the method of treatment, a time being of the essence that Dr. Simon chose to

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use.

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So, the story has been reconstructed, in effect, or parts of it have, through bona fide, hypnotic

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treatment by a distinguished Boston psychiatrist.

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I could read to you the entire excerpt from the 1966-67, Who's Who in the East, 10th edition.

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There's about 42 inches worth of material in the columns on Dr. Benjamin Simon.

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Suffice to say that he is a distinguished, respected psychiatrist.

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All right, now, let's talk to Betty and Barney Hill, who are now on the telephone in Portmouth,

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New Hampshire.

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Hello, which one have I got on the line, or have I got your phone?

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Oh, how wonderful.

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Hello, that's you, Barney?

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Yes, that's correct.

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And, Betty, are you there?

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Yes, I'm here.

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How are you?

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I'm fine, thank you.

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You both met, by a means of telephone, at least, Mr. Earl Netties with us tonight, too.

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Hello, Barney and Betty.

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Hi, Earl.

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Good to hear your voice again.

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Yes, it is a pleasure.

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Thank you.

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Now, before we get started, and I know you've told this story time and time again, and told

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it fascinatingly, I'm going to express my gratitude to you in advance.

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Both of you, Betty and Barney, for conceding to be on with us tonight.

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Thank you.

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Now, as I understand it, we have to go back to 1961 to start this whole incident, don't

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we?

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Yes, that's right.

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September 19th, 1961.

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That's when whatever happened happened.

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Yes.

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Where were you then, Barney?

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Well, Betty and I were returning from a vacation trip in Canada, and we had left Montreal, Canada.

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Arrived in New Hampshire across the Canadian, American Canadian border, about 9.30, close

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to 9.30 o'clock p.m. And we stopped in a small town, border town, called Coldbroke, New

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Hampshire, and we had a refreshment with coffee and hamburgers, and we left approximately

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10 o'clock shortly after 10.

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When we were traveling south on Route 3, arrived in an area called Lancaster, New Hampshire,

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Betty called my attention to an object caused by a star that she had been watching because

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she had noticed it, and she called my attention to it, but she could better tell what she had

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seen because this would have been my first introduction to this star and all.

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Betty, what was it you saw?

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Well, when Peter writing a book in the Lancaster area, it was personal.

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It was a beautiful night.

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It was a hot, smooth, it was quite bright.

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And it spread out in the long, rocky and corner of the moon with a large star which I really

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played up with the planet Jupiter.

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And suddenly, there appeared above this star a much larger star, which I had not been

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there, and then suddenly I saw it.

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And as I was watching, this star seemed to be getting larger and brighter.

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And as we were going to do better all night, kept watching it, and then all of a sudden,

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I noticed that it had started to move.

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And it was at this time that I felt really called Betty's attention to it.

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And we decided to stop, get out of the car with the binoculars, and take a look at it.

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At this time, we thought it was a satellite.

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So we just got out of the car, and we had seven systems of objects that I had not forgotten.

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Besides, it was a device 7 by 50 power.

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And we took turns watching this object, and it went across the face of the moon.

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And then made a half turn, and started to come in towards our car.

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And when it started coming towards us, this was when we returned to the car.

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And just finally made the comment that it had seen us, and was coming towards us.

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We got in the car, and we started driving.

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How did you feel then, Barney, if you said it had seen you, it was coming toward you.

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Well, Alan, I think that remark would have been made because after Betty had called my attention to this,

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and this car that was in the sky moving, my remark to her was that it was obviously a satellite.

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Prior to 1961, I was totally closed minded about flying saucers or UFOs,

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so that this would have been a natural explanation for something distant, quite a distant, out moving.

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The reason I said that it had not seen us, and was coming towards us,

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is because there's rapidly, from a star-like position, which means it was quite a distant away,

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it now had come in rapidly to where it would have been closed to.

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What I mean by closed is that now it is something that you can see in the sky, like a light, with the sky in the background, you might say.

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Would you say that it was just an off-and-rear fight in this moment?

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Well, I became frightened only because I didn't say, well, Betty, it is an off-probability,

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it is a commercial airliner going to Canada, because it was traveling north when we initially saw it.

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And I said, well, it's probably a commercial plane on its way north, somewhere.

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And it made this peculiar turn that Betty described, where it turned toward Vermont, which is west of New Hampshire,

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and completing the turn started coming toward where we were parked on the highway, coming towards us.

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Now we are in the mountainous areas, you have to understand that too.

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So I became quite alarmed, and this was dark at night, I saw some bears, unformally, from a city.

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And I kept thinking, well, what if bears came out of the woods then?

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This has been quite frightening to me as well.

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So that Betty, they had seen us, and we returned to the car and began traveling on Room 3, traveling south.

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Now Betty would occasionally call my attention to the object, I would slow down, and sometimes I would make a complete stop,

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because the object was now following, going along in the same direction we were going.

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That is, the way it had been traveling north, it had now began traveling south, the direction we are traveling.

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So that it was off on the passenger side of the car, and we would occasionally stop.

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And I kept thinking, if one has ever been in open areas at night, you can see millions of stars,

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or prominent in the sky that you can in the city.

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So that on occasion when you are driving along at night, you can notice that a star seems to be moving along with the car motion.

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And I kept thinking, well, maybe this is what is happening.

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So I would stop the car, and the object was still moving.

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And this was peculiar to me.

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It was still moving, but it obviously had to rule out that it was a star.

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And it is following us to the south.

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Well, we arrived at an area called the Franconian Notch, and there is cannon-pump there.

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There is a tramway that goes up to the mountain that one can ride, going to some of the much up to the summit of the Mount Stalk.

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And the object went around the west side of the mountain, which would have been the Burmuk.

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Well, we are in New Hampshire, but it would have been on that side.

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While the road itself at the base of the mountain travels around on the left side.

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And then traveling around on the left side at the base of this mountain, of Cannon-on-Ton,

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the object when we came out south of Cannon-on-Ton, there is a natural rock formation called Oman of the Mountain.

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It is actually a landmark marking New Hampshire.

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We use it in many of the government approaches that is telling of sites and things to see.

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One-one visiting New Hampshire.

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So this is something that everyone is quite proud about.

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It is this natural rock formation that looks like the face of a person, a mobile.

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So the object was now front, might say, in the front of us.

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And I came to another stop and I looked and I could see it. It was still all a bit distant.

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What did it look like to you now?

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From this point, it looked like, in all respects, out of probability, it looked like,

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and then I thought it was a type of club.

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Because I thought that a fast-moving commercial plane couldn't travel that slow.

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So it was once again a type of club.

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And this is what Gold-Bitty, there is nothing to get a lot about. It's a type of club.

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But I was getting quite frightened because of this.

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And I thought it must have been a military pilot.

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What they could obviously see on the ground with the lights of the car on.

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I thought they were playing a game with us out there.

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And when we arrived south of Indian Head, I used Indian Head as a landmark.

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But it was just a little south of Indian Head.

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Betty again called my attention to this. She was very excited. She said,

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that I stopped the game because I was calling Betty that way.

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Now we have to get on to who we are.

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I thought we can't bother ourselves with this, whatever it is out there.

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And I, as I said previously, a military pilot, a type of car, a commercial airline,

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I kept putting it all in this kind of natural explanation.

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So she called my attention again and I stopped the car.

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And now the object has descended to about 200 feet.

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It was on the passenger side of the car, not directly to the right, but in an oblique.

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Or to the right head like on that kind of an angle.

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I looked through the windshield and I could see that, as I said,

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that it has descended to about 200 feet. I estimate this.

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And I am not good at that, good at estimating this thing.

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It was quite a closer.

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I became determined then that I was going to find out what this is.

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It had to have some natural explanation.

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And this is as simple as that.

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I got out of the car, took the vanaculars from the row where they were sitting

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between the seat, on the seat between Betty and I.

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And I stepped away from the car and along the whole the object then shifted across

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from the passenger side over the highway, over the field,

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which brought it over on the driver's side of the car now.

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And also in, you might say, an oblique position from the car position.

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That way, not exactly to the passenger side of the car, but on front at an angle.

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And I began walking away.

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I began walking away from the car, across the highway,

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walked into the field. I walked quite a distance.

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And then I was looking at it with the vanaculars and I can't believe what I am seeing.

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Because now we have to understand that this is all that have always been in the conscious memory.

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Yes.

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I can't believe what I am seeing because with the vanaculars I can discern what I call

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a figure's moving about at a huge plate glass that seems to curve around.

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And this was so baffling because we kept thinking, there's nothing this,

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I can't believe it's flying off as UFOs.

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And this is just incredible.

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And I wanted to hear a sound or noise of some kind of motor

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that would cause this thing to be able to be hovering there in a stationary position.

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I failed to mention that when I made this stop, this particular stop,

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Betty also had seen two red lights on the side of the graph.

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And I, when I stepped from the car, could see the same two red lights.

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She was now happy that she had shifted across the highway.

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These figures that were looking seemingly down toward me because the object was tilted

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at a downward motion, plate glass, this huge glass was tilted towards the ground,

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you might say, at a slight angle.

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At an angle that would have enabled the occupants to look down.

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Yes, that's correct.

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I could see, well, I said that all the figures then, it was the exception of one,

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moved away as if to take just one, no more than two steps from the plate glass.

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And I could see with the binoculars what I thought were going on,

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touching or pulling on papers.

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A lack of a better thing to say, I called the believers.

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Yes.

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The two red lights that were now part of the graph began to move out and away,

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becoming the extension of a thin or thin light type wing.

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Yes.

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The long wings that you find on a plane, thought more of a thin light type of wing

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and the two red lights would have been the adipate of this,

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and it became the extension of these wings.

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And I was just completely saffled by the entire experience that he has seen,

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this incredible thing.

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And I pulled the binoculars away from my eyes, dashing back to the car, screaming to Betty,

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oh my God, I said, Betty, there is going to capture it.

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I entered the car, put it into gear, and I thought I could see as I passed.

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I mentioned it was in an oblique position towards the front of the car.

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You thought I might want to use it?

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Yes.

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So that when I began driving down the highway, the object I saw shifted overhead.

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And there was a series of beeps, and Betty was saying, I don't see it, I don't see it.

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There was this series of beeps, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, and the car vibrated very subtly.

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Yes.

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And could you sense where those beeps, if there was a vibration, where the vibration was coming from?

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I felt it with my hands on the steering wheel, I felt it tingling on the steering column.

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Betty has mentioned that, but she hasn't mentioned it yet, but she has told me that she reached itself to dash panel

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and we all wondered, where is this subtle vibration coming from?

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It was not a violent vibration.

222
00:16:46,480 --> 00:16:47,480
Yes.

223
00:16:47,480 --> 00:16:55,480
The vibration was much, the description I have given is like a tuning fork being struck in place against one's arm.

224
00:16:55,480 --> 00:16:56,480
Yes.

225
00:16:56,480 --> 00:16:57,480
That's just a subtle vibration.

226
00:16:57,480 --> 00:17:01,480
That's the way the car vibrated from the beeping sound that we heard.

227
00:17:01,480 --> 00:17:04,480
And the vibration seemed to coordinate with the beeping sound.

228
00:17:04,480 --> 00:17:05,480
Let the beeps, yes.

229
00:17:05,480 --> 00:17:08,480
All right, now I would stop you with this point in your story.

230
00:17:08,480 --> 00:17:14,480
Barney and Barney Hill is recounting, ladies and gentlemen, this story from his conscious memory.

231
00:17:14,480 --> 00:17:18,480
It is most important to realize that there was a lapse.

232
00:17:18,480 --> 00:17:25,480
What you're going to hear next in the story is a reconstructed version.

233
00:17:25,480 --> 00:17:34,480
It took some years for Barney and for Betty Hill to find out what happened after they first heard the beeping sound

234
00:17:34,480 --> 00:17:37,480
and felt the vibrations inside the car.

235
00:17:37,480 --> 00:17:44,480
But I would like to pause for just a moment if I may and render a commercial.

236
00:17:44,480 --> 00:17:52,480
And then we'll get back to the story that we're listening to from Betty and Barney Hill speaking to us from Portsmouth, New Hampshire tonight.

237
00:17:52,480 --> 00:18:11,480
And we will go aboard that unidentified flying object with Mr. and Mrs. Hill in a moment.

238
00:18:11,480 --> 00:18:15,480
And so will Earl Ness, our guest here in the studio tonight.

239
00:18:15,480 --> 00:18:21,480
We're talking Earl Ness of Cleveland and I with Betty and Barney Hill.

240
00:18:21,480 --> 00:18:27,480
And Betty and Barney live and are speaking to us tonight from their residence in Portsmouth, New Hampshire.

241
00:18:27,480 --> 00:18:36,480
And we left them on Route 3 heading south and feeling a strange vibration in the car coordinated with beeps.

242
00:18:36,480 --> 00:18:40,480
And now let's get back to Barney and Betty.

243
00:18:40,480 --> 00:18:49,480
Before we go on with the story, Betty, you were alone in the car with the dog while Barney ran out in the field with the bonacutters.

244
00:18:49,480 --> 00:18:55,480
Now what did you see from the car and how did you feel that while Barney was off in the field?

245
00:18:55,480 --> 00:19:04,480
Well, my first thought was, well, let me say first of all, I had no fear whatsoever at this point.

246
00:19:04,480 --> 00:19:10,480
I was fascinated by this and I had a great deal of curiosity.

247
00:19:10,480 --> 00:19:17,480
When Barney saw the car, he stopped at right, right in the middle of the highway.

248
00:19:17,480 --> 00:19:27,480
And so when he ran out into the field, I was reading the car and I was watching in case of traffic, any car coming along.

249
00:19:27,480 --> 00:19:33,480
Then I would drive the car over to the side of the highway.

250
00:19:33,480 --> 00:19:40,480
So I was sitting here waiting for my help. And I kept waiting and waiting and waiting.

251
00:19:40,480 --> 00:19:47,480
And he didn't come back. And at this point, I began to get quite upset.

252
00:19:47,480 --> 00:20:00,480
And so I found out later under the circumstances that I became so upset I was almost speaking, but he didn't come back to the car.

253
00:20:00,480 --> 00:20:06,480
And if he did not come back, I was going to go out and get it myself.

254
00:20:06,480 --> 00:20:12,480
And I then opened the side of the door and it was open on the other side.

255
00:20:12,480 --> 00:20:18,480
And I started to open it and when I was going to find out and go out in the field and get out of the car,

256
00:20:18,480 --> 00:20:29,480
when I heard him running out to the car, and then this is when he got into the car and said that they were going to capture us.

257
00:20:30,480 --> 00:20:37,480
And he was so upset. He was so hysterical. He was very upset.

258
00:20:37,480 --> 00:20:41,480
And he immediately started driving the car.

259
00:20:41,480 --> 00:20:44,480
Those wheels tried to escape.

260
00:20:44,480 --> 00:20:49,480
And he was also telling me to look out and see if I could see them.

261
00:20:49,480 --> 00:20:52,480
Saying that they were directly over here.

262
00:20:52,480 --> 00:20:57,480
I looked the car and went down and I checked my house, the window and looked down.

263
00:20:57,480 --> 00:21:00,480
And I couldn't see any sign.

264
00:21:00,480 --> 00:21:08,480
And so then I took a little backup and it just turned out completely that we heard some beeping on the train to the car.

265
00:21:08,480 --> 00:21:10,480
And the car vibrated.

266
00:21:10,480 --> 00:21:17,480
And I was touching the metal because I could see a little something electrical.

267
00:21:17,480 --> 00:21:21,480
And possibly there would be electricity. Maybe if I could feel a shock.

268
00:21:21,480 --> 00:21:22,480
Yes.

269
00:21:22,480 --> 00:21:25,480
But a metal or a car. There was no sign.

270
00:21:25,480 --> 00:21:30,480
Now, at this point, this is a critical point in the story.

271
00:21:30,480 --> 00:21:41,480
It is typical to know where to go from here because this is the point of the story at which you later realized that there were two hours missing in time.

272
00:21:41,480 --> 00:21:53,480
And I think perhaps what we best do is follow you along home in your conscious memory to the point where you got home and then reconstruct the story as it actually happened to you.

273
00:21:53,480 --> 00:21:55,480
We'll do that in a moment.

274
00:21:55,480 --> 00:22:00,480
After I pause to remind our audience that we're talking with Barney and Betty Hill tonight.

275
00:22:00,480 --> 00:22:08,480
They are the subjects of the book The Interrupted Journey. Two hours, two lost hours aboard a flying saucer by John G Fuller.

276
00:22:08,480 --> 00:22:11,480
It is now available. It's published by Zyle.

277
00:22:11,480 --> 00:22:15,480
And if you are a ufologist, I strongly urge that you get this book.

278
00:22:15,480 --> 00:22:32,480
I think that this incident goes down as probably the best documented fighting of another device flying object and confrontation with creatures in an object in the history of UFOs.

279
00:22:32,480 --> 00:22:36,480
Now, Betty and Barney will be with us and so will Earl Ness.

280
00:22:36,480 --> 00:22:43,480
I feel him felt only through earthbound egoistic urges to remind you that my name is Alan Ness.

281
00:22:43,480 --> 00:22:48,480
Now, let's get back to the story that Betty and Barney are telling us.

282
00:22:48,480 --> 00:22:52,480
You proceeded onward then toward Portsmouth.

283
00:22:52,480 --> 00:23:04,480
From the time you first heard those beats and felt the vibrations, was there any lag in your conscious memory to the second time you heard them?

284
00:23:04,480 --> 00:23:13,480
I would say that we feel only later that we realize that this chat was sort of missing.

285
00:23:13,480 --> 00:23:15,480
May I F.B.A. say this?

286
00:23:15,480 --> 00:23:16,480
Yes, Tony.

287
00:23:16,480 --> 00:23:25,480
And Betty, that later we also described another time when we heard these series of beat.

288
00:23:25,480 --> 00:23:32,480
And Betty remarked to me, well now Barney, do you believe in flying saucers?

289
00:23:32,480 --> 00:23:35,480
And I said, of course, not Betty, don't be ridiculous.

290
00:23:35,480 --> 00:23:41,480
This would have been in the September's National Infection of New Hampshire on Route 3.

291
00:23:41,480 --> 00:23:44,480
This incident has always been the position that you had taken?

292
00:23:44,480 --> 00:23:48,480
Yes, and we then proceeded on to Portsmouth.

293
00:23:48,480 --> 00:23:54,480
We occasionally, we didn't stop after this, but we would occasionally look at the sky.

294
00:23:54,480 --> 00:23:59,480
We would throw down very, to a full base occasionally.

295
00:23:59,480 --> 00:24:02,480
And we drove to Portsmouth.

296
00:24:02,480 --> 00:24:09,480
There wasn't much conversation between us from that point after the second beat to Portsmouth.

297
00:24:09,480 --> 00:24:20,480
Except that when we arrived in the city of Portsmouth, it was dawn, it was daybreak, and the sun was coming up.

298
00:24:20,480 --> 00:24:23,480
It was not night any longer.

299
00:24:23,480 --> 00:24:30,480
Now this is the trip, it's approximately 170 miles from Coldbrook, New Hampshire to Portsmouth.

300
00:24:30,480 --> 00:24:33,480
And the speed of the highway is 50 miles an hour.

301
00:24:33,480 --> 00:24:40,480
We don't know that it should have taken us, oh, I should say, at least 3 to 4 hours to get home.

302
00:24:40,480 --> 00:24:42,480
It would have had you home about midnight.

303
00:24:42,480 --> 00:24:46,480
Yes, well, no, we left at Coldbrook at 10 o'clock.

304
00:24:46,480 --> 00:24:49,480
We should have arrived, I would say, around 2 o'clock in the morning.

305
00:24:49,480 --> 00:24:50,480
2 am, right?

306
00:24:50,480 --> 00:24:56,480
Yes, but when we arrived, it was after 4, closer to 5, when we arrived in Portsmouth.

307
00:24:56,480 --> 00:25:05,480
But it was very determined that I would not bring the car refrigerator we had with food in it, of fresh food, that is,

308
00:25:05,480 --> 00:25:12,480
that I would not bring it into the house, that I would carry it around to the back soup and place it there because she wanted to discard all this food.

309
00:25:12,480 --> 00:25:18,480
And I wondered why, and she just thought, but she didn't want it in the house and we shouldn't eat it.

310
00:25:18,480 --> 00:25:26,480
We entered the home and we felt unclean, more than just the accumulation of dirt and slime, one would get from a trip.

311
00:25:26,480 --> 00:25:32,480
But we felt foiled, and there was foiled and kind of uncleanliness.

312
00:25:32,480 --> 00:25:38,480
And I went into the bathroom, took a mirror and examined my body for no reason.

313
00:25:38,480 --> 00:25:40,480
I wasn't looking for anything.

314
00:25:40,480 --> 00:25:44,480
I just felt something had touched me and I wasn't sure what it was.

315
00:25:44,480 --> 00:25:46,480
And I went to look around and see.

316
00:25:46,480 --> 00:25:48,480
And I didn't see or find anything.

317
00:25:48,480 --> 00:25:52,480
Well, this is basically what would have happened.

318
00:25:52,480 --> 00:25:58,480
Betty and I retired then and we awakened several hours later in the late afternoon.

319
00:25:58,480 --> 00:26:02,480
We followed what we would never tell anyone about this.

320
00:26:02,480 --> 00:26:10,480
And we decided that we would draw a picture of what we thought this thing looked like and compare our drawings.

321
00:26:10,480 --> 00:26:16,480
So Betty went into one room and I, the other, we drew our pictures, we brought them together and we looked at them.

322
00:26:16,480 --> 00:26:22,480
And there was the similarity of the structure of what we were trying to draw.

323
00:26:22,480 --> 00:26:30,480
So our drawing techniques, basically, we're not odd as far as the imagination, but there was the similarity.

324
00:26:30,480 --> 00:26:36,480
Well, Betty then called her sister. We weren't going to tell anyone.

325
00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:43,480
So she called her sister and told her sister about it and also remarked about the beat.

326
00:26:43,480 --> 00:26:45,480
Because she was very upset about this.

327
00:26:45,480 --> 00:26:52,480
And her sister called back a few minutes later telling us that she had talked with her sister's friend of hers.

328
00:26:52,480 --> 00:27:00,480
And he had suggested that if there was beeping and the tingling sensation that Betty had described to go out and take a look at her car,

329
00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:06,480
if she had anything she could use to take it with her, and one suggestion was a compass.

330
00:27:06,480 --> 00:27:07,480
Yes.

331
00:27:07,480 --> 00:27:12,480
So we found the compass and it was interesting. Many people have a question. Why did we have a compass?

332
00:27:12,480 --> 00:27:15,480
Why do we have a compass? Did we have an oculus?

333
00:27:15,480 --> 00:27:16,480
The only answer is...

334
00:27:16,480 --> 00:27:18,480
Your camphor is there, she's got me.

335
00:27:18,480 --> 00:27:19,480
Your camphor is there, she's got me.

336
00:27:19,480 --> 00:27:20,480
We're camphors, we love it.

337
00:27:20,480 --> 00:27:28,480
And the interesting thing, we live on the coast and we're only about three miles from the ocean

338
00:27:28,480 --> 00:27:34,480
so that anyone living by the sea, we enjoy sitting on the beach looking out at ocean line

339
00:27:34,480 --> 00:27:39,480
and going up the coast occasionally, coming into portmouth as well as going into the mountain areas

340
00:27:39,480 --> 00:27:44,480
and going up on the summit of some mountain and then looking off at the best distances

341
00:27:44,480 --> 00:27:47,480
and trying to pick out objects with the binoculars.

342
00:27:47,480 --> 00:27:49,480
So this is just standard equipment.

343
00:27:49,480 --> 00:27:54,480
I would say that any rational mind will grant you a pair of binoculars and a compass.

344
00:27:55,480 --> 00:27:56,480
Yes.

345
00:27:56,480 --> 00:28:00,480
So that goat, bedding went out and he came into the house very, very upset.

346
00:28:00,480 --> 00:28:06,480
Now, I get told that to keep me out of this and not to involve me with a conversation with the sister or any of this.

347
00:28:06,480 --> 00:28:10,480
Well, we have tenants living in our apartment at that time.

348
00:28:10,480 --> 00:28:16,480
This young man in his life that we're living in our apartment, that is the building we have home to building itself.

349
00:28:16,480 --> 00:28:20,480
They knew we had been on vacation and they could hear us talking.

350
00:28:20,480 --> 00:28:25,480
So they came down to ask about our trip and they noticed I was very excited

351
00:28:25,480 --> 00:28:29,480
and was trying to get me to go look at her car.

352
00:28:29,480 --> 00:28:31,480
And they went off to Goloka and they came in and they said,

353
00:28:31,480 --> 00:28:33,480
Bonnie, you should go out and take a look at the car.

354
00:28:33,480 --> 00:28:34,480
I said, what's the deal?

355
00:28:34,480 --> 00:28:36,480
Oh, there are large spots on it.

356
00:28:36,480 --> 00:28:41,480
So I went out and we looked at them and took a look and they were on the front of the car.

357
00:28:41,480 --> 00:28:45,480
They were very large shiny spots about the size of silver dollars.

358
00:28:45,480 --> 00:28:50,480
These spots were the same color of the car because this has been a misconception.

359
00:28:50,480 --> 00:28:54,480
Some people have thought that they were different color, but it was the same color of the car.

360
00:28:54,480 --> 00:29:00,480
Only as if it had been highly polished, this is a circular polish.

361
00:29:00,480 --> 00:29:06,480
And there must have been around 15 to 20 of these spots in no particular pattern.

362
00:29:06,480 --> 00:29:09,480
Just spotted throughout the trunk.

363
00:29:09,480 --> 00:29:10,480
Around the trunk area.

364
00:29:10,480 --> 00:29:11,480
Yes.

365
00:29:11,480 --> 00:29:17,480
And when placing the compass over the spot, the compass would revolve very erratically.

366
00:29:17,480 --> 00:29:20,480
The reason I wasn't too interested about taking the compass out

367
00:29:20,480 --> 00:29:25,480
because I knew that a car would invariably or any kind of metal of this type

368
00:29:25,480 --> 00:29:30,480
would attract the magnet of the compass to what it.

369
00:29:30,480 --> 00:29:33,480
I didn't find anything too upsetting about that

370
00:29:33,480 --> 00:29:39,480
except that when putting the compass over the spot, then it would erratically revolve.

371
00:29:39,480 --> 00:29:44,480
So Betty then decided that there's only one thing to do with this.

372
00:29:44,480 --> 00:29:50,480
That is to notify the PSA of fourth base, which is a fact base in our town, in our area.

373
00:29:50,480 --> 00:29:52,480
And she called.

374
00:29:52,480 --> 00:29:58,480
I told her, well, okay, you may, but you mustn't give my name or tell me anything about me.

375
00:29:58,480 --> 00:30:03,480
Well, this is ridiculous on my part because obviously she had to say that her husband was with her on vacation.

376
00:30:03,480 --> 00:30:08,480
And as their next, as their questioning heard, their next action would have been

377
00:30:08,480 --> 00:30:13,480
well now that I speak to your husband, you know, so I, they're not involved.

378
00:30:13,480 --> 00:30:20,480
But as I have pointed out in the book that Mr. Fulish has written documenting this story,

379
00:30:20,480 --> 00:30:26,480
I pointed out that after talking with these officers, I formed at peace.

380
00:30:26,480 --> 00:30:31,480
I felt a great relief because they handled it with great dignity, you might say.

381
00:30:31,480 --> 00:30:34,480
In a very official way.

382
00:30:34,480 --> 00:30:40,480
And as if this was the responsible thing that she and I should have done to report it to them,

383
00:30:40,480 --> 00:30:47,480
they also said that we were going to be hooked up with another phone.

384
00:30:47,480 --> 00:30:51,480
They didn't tell us at this time and it would be monitored.

385
00:30:51,480 --> 00:30:55,480
We later learned that this would have been hooked up to Wright-Patterson Airport,

386
00:30:55,480 --> 00:30:58,480
where we again told the same story.

387
00:30:58,480 --> 00:31:05,480
And they called back a few times to ask us about details concerning the structure of the craft,

388
00:31:05,480 --> 00:31:07,480
its maneuverability, etc., so forth.

389
00:31:07,480 --> 00:31:12,480
And that was the only official interview we had with the military.

390
00:31:12,480 --> 00:31:14,480
No one ever came out to the house.

391
00:31:14,480 --> 00:31:22,480
Betty Beanewell obtained books from the library because neither of us knew anything about the so-called UFO flying saucer.

392
00:31:22,480 --> 00:31:28,480
And she was quite interested now to find out just what did we see.

393
00:31:28,480 --> 00:31:32,480
And these books that she went down to the library to obtain,

394
00:31:32,480 --> 00:31:36,480
one contained information about reporting fighting with the NCAC,

395
00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:41,480
a national investigator committee on aerial phenomenon, so she started off a letter to NCAC,

396
00:31:41,480 --> 00:31:47,480
and then they sent an investigator to visit us from Boston.

397
00:31:47,480 --> 00:31:52,480
They located in Washington, the headquarters, which have investigators throughout this country.

398
00:31:52,480 --> 00:31:59,480
So Walter Webb, a, you might call him, a astronomer, he's a lecturer at Aitton Planetarium,

399
00:31:59,480 --> 00:32:01,480
came to interview us.

400
00:32:01,480 --> 00:32:06,480
And I found later, found out later, that he did, this was greatly loved because

401
00:32:06,480 --> 00:32:12,480
that was the mention of me having seen, of, there's a certain figure inside the craft.

402
00:32:12,480 --> 00:32:19,480
Yes, but after arriving later, he said he was very impressed with the sincerity of both Betty and I.

403
00:32:19,480 --> 00:32:27,480
And I certainly did respond to Walter when he came to the house, an intelligent young man.

404
00:32:27,480 --> 00:32:33,480
I thought, well, I didn't know what was going to come to visit me concerning this kind of a story.

405
00:32:33,480 --> 00:32:41,480
Other scientists became interested, so they heard of this throughout now that we had reported it to NCAC.

406
00:32:41,480 --> 00:32:51,480
They published a newsletter to their subscribers so that we never volunteered and used this information to any news media.

407
00:32:51,480 --> 00:32:54,480
Because we didn't want this kind of publicity.

408
00:32:54,480 --> 00:32:56,480
So these other scientists got interested in it.

409
00:32:56,480 --> 00:33:02,480
And they stayed, visited us from different states, different areas.

410
00:33:02,480 --> 00:33:09,480
And while going over this one day, we must have spent about 12 hours going over this great depth

411
00:33:09,480 --> 00:33:16,480
when they came up with the idea that we realized that from the time we left Colbrook

412
00:33:16,480 --> 00:33:22,480
and the time we arrived in Portmouth was close to six hours than four hours, which we should have taken.

413
00:33:22,480 --> 00:33:23,480
Yes.

414
00:33:23,480 --> 00:33:27,480
Well, we were sort of, well, we hadn't really realized it.

415
00:33:27,480 --> 00:33:34,480
But the fact that why after my dashing back to the car at Indian Head screaming something's going to capture us,

416
00:33:34,480 --> 00:33:38,480
Betty remarked later, do you believe in trying to process?

417
00:33:38,480 --> 00:33:45,480
And we have to understand that when I made this remark at Indian Head and in this series of beeps,

418
00:33:45,480 --> 00:33:52,480
the next series of beeps occurred in the Plymouth Ashland area, and this is the Park from the 330 to 35 miles apart.

419
00:33:52,480 --> 00:33:53,480
Yes.

420
00:33:53,480 --> 00:34:03,480
And we could never fill in, we could never think and understand exactly what we had been doing from the first beep to the second beep.

421
00:34:03,480 --> 00:34:04,480
Yes.

422
00:34:04,480 --> 00:34:09,480
Except to say that while I was driving the car after I ran back at Indian Head,

423
00:34:09,480 --> 00:34:15,480
I was driving and when the second beeps occurred in the Plymouth area, I'm driving the car.

424
00:34:15,480 --> 00:34:22,480
And, well, I don't know why she didn't tell me or ask me what's going to capture us, you see.

425
00:34:22,480 --> 00:34:24,480
No, yes, no.

426
00:34:24,480 --> 00:34:35,480
Along with this, along with these scientific inquiries that you were so laboriously and I'm sure interestingly answering,

427
00:34:35,480 --> 00:34:42,480
you and Betty had begun to have dreams, the dreams begun by this time.

428
00:34:42,480 --> 00:34:51,480
Betty had these dreams five days or ten days, correction, ten days after the fighting in 1961.

429
00:34:51,480 --> 00:34:54,480
And they lasted for only five days.

430
00:34:54,480 --> 00:34:55,480
I see.

431
00:34:55,480 --> 00:34:59,480
This is very important because she did not dream of UFOs after it.

432
00:34:59,480 --> 00:35:01,480
I did not have dreams.

433
00:35:01,480 --> 00:35:02,480
You had not?

434
00:35:02,480 --> 00:35:03,480
I had not.

435
00:35:03,480 --> 00:35:06,480
Betty dreamed for four, for what, five consecutive days?

436
00:35:06,480 --> 00:35:07,480
Five consecutive days.

437
00:35:07,480 --> 00:35:09,480
And what was the dream like, Betty?

438
00:35:09,480 --> 00:35:10,480
You get it, don't you, Betty?

439
00:35:10,480 --> 00:35:20,480
Well, actually, we found out later that my dreams were very, very similar to the information that we obtained

440
00:35:20,480 --> 00:35:22,480
under the headmaster.

441
00:35:22,480 --> 00:35:26,480
There was some minor differences.

442
00:35:26,480 --> 00:35:34,480
And I think probably the most important difference is that in my dreams, I made the argument,

443
00:35:34,480 --> 00:35:40,480
and I think more human than they were under the headmaster.

444
00:35:40,480 --> 00:35:43,480
Well, no, that leads us.

445
00:35:43,480 --> 00:35:49,480
I know there's a great deal more to the story, but I think what we had better do now is go back to that.

446
00:35:49,480 --> 00:36:01,480
Back to that moment, just after the first beeping, in order to do that, if I may very rapidly fill in our audience in the interest of time,

447
00:36:01,480 --> 00:36:05,480
Betty and Barney Hill were so disturbed by the dreams that Betty had had.

448
00:36:05,480 --> 00:36:07,480
Is that true?

449
00:36:07,480 --> 00:36:08,480
Barney had had none.

450
00:36:08,480 --> 00:36:10,480
Barney had had dreams.

451
00:36:10,480 --> 00:36:13,480
But Betty had had dreams, and you were disturbed by these dreams.

452
00:36:13,480 --> 00:36:14,480
Yes.

453
00:36:14,480 --> 00:36:19,480
And you thought the help of a psychiatrist.

454
00:36:19,480 --> 00:36:21,480
Is my or a psychologist?

455
00:36:21,480 --> 00:36:22,480
Was it the first?

456
00:36:22,480 --> 00:36:25,480
No, I think I have fixed the structure of this.

457
00:36:25,480 --> 00:36:26,480
Proper way.

458
00:36:26,480 --> 00:36:35,480
Is after Betty had these dreams, then it was a matter of her later when Walter Webb came to interview us,

459
00:36:35,480 --> 00:36:40,480
telling him, including in the entire story, she did mention about the dreams.

460
00:36:40,480 --> 00:36:44,480
And one of the two scientists came to inquire about this sighting.

461
00:36:44,480 --> 00:36:45,480
She mentioned this.

462
00:36:45,480 --> 00:36:47,480
She had also told me about the dreams.

463
00:36:47,480 --> 00:36:51,480
And my conclusion was that is exactly what she had.

464
00:36:51,480 --> 00:36:54,480
Three or more or less.

465
00:36:54,480 --> 00:37:01,480
But when they decided that there was a missing period here of approximately two hours,

466
00:37:01,480 --> 00:37:06,480
also that it was obvious that we both had suffered amnesia at Indian Head,

467
00:37:06,480 --> 00:37:11,480
and we did not come out of this amnesia state until Plymouth.

468
00:37:11,480 --> 00:37:18,480
There's some things very baffling, because this is highly improbable for two people to suffer amnesia at the same time.

469
00:37:18,480 --> 00:37:19,480
Yes.

470
00:37:19,480 --> 00:37:25,480
Well then, this is a few months after she had had her dreams.

471
00:37:25,480 --> 00:37:37,480
That we began hoping to find a qualified psychiatrist, preferably a person trained in medical perfection,

472
00:37:37,480 --> 00:37:39,480
conducted diagnosis.

473
00:37:39,480 --> 00:37:46,480
We had an interview with one psychiatrist in Massachusetts, and he, after observing us, said that,

474
00:37:46,480 --> 00:37:54,480
I felt pleased about this, because he gave us the assurance that we were not hallucinating,

475
00:37:54,480 --> 00:37:56,480
and that we were seeing.

476
00:37:56,480 --> 00:38:01,480
But since the experience was very recent, sit on it for a while,

477
00:38:01,480 --> 00:38:07,480
and possibly it will open up the amnesia, might open up in a natural way.

478
00:38:07,480 --> 00:38:13,480
This would have been very soon after the sighting, when we had this appointment with the psychiatrist,

479
00:38:13,480 --> 00:38:15,480
the doctor, who was closest.

480
00:38:15,480 --> 00:38:23,480
I had an ulcer that had not bothered me for months and years, but it then began to bother me,

481
00:38:23,480 --> 00:38:28,480
and it did not respond to any medication from the medical doctor,

482
00:38:28,480 --> 00:38:35,480
and so he then decided, well, I thought we had had some kind of psychological origin or cause

483
00:38:35,480 --> 00:38:44,480
that continued, that it persisted in causing this distress with the ulcer itself.

484
00:38:44,480 --> 00:38:52,480
So he suggested, based on some of the things I had told him about my son's teenagers,

485
00:38:52,480 --> 00:38:59,480
and they were in another state and they wouldn't write, and I would get upset because I wasn't getting the kind of correspondence,

486
00:38:59,480 --> 00:39:04,480
but he would say, well, after all, this is teenage, but boys don't like the right.

487
00:39:04,480 --> 00:39:13,480
So what it wasn't satisfying me, so now I'm telling this to the gashes as a part of why I had been upset thinking this was the reason for the ulcer.

488
00:39:13,480 --> 00:39:23,480
But I one day mentioned to him how Betty and I had seen a UFO, and as a result of it,

489
00:39:23,480 --> 00:39:29,480
all the books as if we both had amnesia at the same time, because then I wrote him in briefly with what we know.

490
00:39:29,480 --> 00:39:36,480
So he recognized that this was possibly the cause of my ulcer.

491
00:39:36,480 --> 00:39:43,480
Two people Betty had had her nightmare streamed several years ago, that is, they ran for five days,

492
00:39:43,480 --> 00:39:46,480
but they were still plaking while bothering her.

493
00:39:46,480 --> 00:39:52,480
Several years later, my ulcer not responding to medical medicine,

494
00:39:52,480 --> 00:39:57,480
and we are primary concerned about an experience that has happened in 1961.

495
00:39:57,480 --> 00:40:00,480
This is now the latter part of 1963.

496
00:40:00,480 --> 00:40:07,480
He then recommended that we, that he would establish an appointment with us,

497
00:40:07,480 --> 00:40:17,480
as Dr. Benjamin Simon, a very qualified, prominent psychiatrist,

498
00:40:17,480 --> 00:40:25,480
and will, you might say, qualify to regret one back with the use of hypnotherapy.

499
00:40:25,480 --> 00:40:33,480
Yes, now it was Dr. Simon who elected to use hypnotherapy because it was a more expedient means.

500
00:40:33,480 --> 00:40:37,480
It was, this is what he determined after the consultation.

501
00:40:37,480 --> 00:40:44,480
We set up, we established an appointment, both Betty and I went together when we kept this appointment,

502
00:40:44,480 --> 00:40:49,480
and he immediately could recognize that we both had amnesia at the same time,

503
00:40:49,480 --> 00:40:58,480
and that he then decided that one way of opening the amnesia, the amnesia itself,

504
00:40:58,480 --> 00:41:03,480
which could possibly be the technique of the specific hypnosis.

505
00:41:03,480 --> 00:41:11,480
All right, now at the point at which Dr. Simon began to treat both of you using hypnosis,

506
00:41:11,480 --> 00:41:19,480
let's go back now and reconstruct from that first moment of my way on Route 3 heading south.

507
00:41:19,480 --> 00:41:24,480
When you heard those beats rather than go into Dr. Simon's office,

508
00:41:24,480 --> 00:41:31,480
I think it would be better now for you to tell us what you now have had opened up to you through hypnosis

509
00:41:31,480 --> 00:41:35,480
and through the psychiatric treatment of Dr. Simon.

510
00:41:35,480 --> 00:41:40,480
Let's go back to those first beatings and pick up the story from there

511
00:41:40,480 --> 00:41:43,480
and reconstruct those missing two hours.

512
00:41:43,480 --> 00:41:52,480
Well, I first was carried through the experience in a regressive recall by Dr. Simon.

513
00:41:52,480 --> 00:41:53,480
Yes.

514
00:41:53,480 --> 00:42:02,480
And I also would like to point out that at no time, whenever information was being extracted from us,

515
00:42:02,480 --> 00:42:06,480
while in the deep trance, Bobetti and I in the same room together,

516
00:42:06,480 --> 00:42:11,480
I would spend maybe an hour in the deep trance telling him and the doctor with him

517
00:42:11,480 --> 00:42:16,480
a legal post-sacrostic suggestion that I would not remember anything that I had told.

518
00:42:16,480 --> 00:42:21,480
And we do the same with Betty in this way, if you've been from telling each other,

519
00:42:21,480 --> 00:42:24,480
what we were telling the doctor while we got back to that period.

520
00:42:24,480 --> 00:42:31,480
Yes, it's very unusual for one psychiatrist, as I understand it, to treat two people,

521
00:42:31,480 --> 00:42:33,480
legally a man and wife.

522
00:42:33,480 --> 00:42:38,480
But in this instance, because of this dual experience,

523
00:42:38,480 --> 00:42:40,480
each of you having experienced the same thing,

524
00:42:40,480 --> 00:42:47,480
I can see where the course of treatment and the method of one psychiatrist handling both patients

525
00:42:47,480 --> 00:42:52,480
was a logical and an ethical expedient.

526
00:42:52,480 --> 00:42:53,480
Yes.

527
00:42:53,480 --> 00:42:55,480
Okay, I saw.

528
00:42:55,480 --> 00:43:01,480
Now, under the progressive diagnosis, after returning to the car,

529
00:43:01,480 --> 00:43:09,480
rather while out in the field, it seems as if there was some communication

530
00:43:09,480 --> 00:43:12,480
between this object hovering in the sky.

531
00:43:12,480 --> 00:43:17,480
I could always remember one person continuing to stay in that plate class,

532
00:43:17,480 --> 00:43:22,480
looking back at me while the others moved away from the glass itself,

533
00:43:22,480 --> 00:43:27,480
reaching up as I described, reaching to a water panel.

534
00:43:27,480 --> 00:43:28,480
Yes.

535
00:43:28,480 --> 00:43:32,480
Except this one, that continued to stare back at me.

536
00:43:32,480 --> 00:43:38,480
Now, under the progressive diagnosis, it seemed as if I was being compelled to come close to this graph,

537
00:43:38,480 --> 00:43:42,480
actually being told to come close to the graph.

538
00:43:42,480 --> 00:43:48,480
We have to realize that the graph is approximately 100 feet away from me up in the air.

539
00:43:48,480 --> 00:43:50,480
It's not on the ground at this point.

540
00:43:50,480 --> 00:43:54,480
Yes, there was this kind of communication that I was receiving.

541
00:43:54,480 --> 00:44:01,480
I had my binoculars up to my eyes and I was also told to keep them there, not take them away.

542
00:44:01,480 --> 00:44:08,480
I pulled them somehow as well as the tapes of the hypnotist were very emotional,

543
00:44:08,480 --> 00:44:13,480
and I screamed and pulled the binoculars on my eyes, and I also broke the straps.

544
00:44:13,480 --> 00:44:16,480
Now, I failed to mention that when we returned to person,

545
00:44:16,480 --> 00:44:20,480
later I was looking at my binoculars, I noticed the straps were broken,

546
00:44:20,480 --> 00:44:23,480
and I wondered if Betty had somehow broken the straps,

547
00:44:23,480 --> 00:44:27,480
and then I questioned my son and asked if they had broken my straps.

548
00:44:27,480 --> 00:44:32,480
I never knew, although it was not, so now we go back to that period standing in the field,

549
00:44:32,480 --> 00:44:37,480
and then pulling the binoculars from my eyes was such a thought,

550
00:44:37,480 --> 00:44:41,480
they parted the straps, parted from around my neck.

551
00:44:41,480 --> 00:44:43,480
So you were really privately afraid?

552
00:44:43,480 --> 00:44:49,480
Yes, and then I dashed back to the car, and then upon entering the car,

553
00:44:49,480 --> 00:44:54,480
there was a series of beats, and there was this oblivion where I didn't remember anything,

554
00:44:54,480 --> 00:44:59,480
but on the regressive notice where I am made to recall exactly what I am doing,

555
00:44:59,480 --> 00:45:03,480
I am driving the car and I drive further south on Route 3,

556
00:45:03,480 --> 00:45:09,480
where I leave Route 3, driving off into a very tessalous spot,

557
00:45:09,480 --> 00:45:15,480
a part of the mountain section, where there is no car traffic at that time of night,

558
00:45:15,480 --> 00:45:18,480
incidentally there wasn't any traffic on Route 3,

559
00:45:18,480 --> 00:45:23,480
because we have to realize this is afterly, but they, not there in the white mountains,

560
00:45:23,480 --> 00:45:28,480
after September 7th, it is very tessalous to part at night.

561
00:45:28,480 --> 00:45:31,480
Yes, we turn off, you turn off Route 3.

562
00:45:31,480 --> 00:45:35,480
You turn away, I drove off Route 3, and into a very tessalous wooded area.

563
00:45:35,480 --> 00:45:39,480
Even under the regressive treatment, can you recall any motive for turning off?

564
00:45:39,480 --> 00:45:45,480
Yes, I am being told to. I am actually being told, even after returning to the car,

565
00:45:45,480 --> 00:45:48,480
it seems as if, and I knew the words of mine,

566
00:45:48,480 --> 00:45:53,480
if there had been damage done to me as was done at that time, I was standing in the field,

567
00:45:53,480 --> 00:45:56,480
because it seems as if even after returning to the car,

568
00:45:56,480 --> 00:46:02,480
I am being directed to drive down to this spot, and leave the highway where I made this left turn,

569
00:46:03,480 --> 00:46:08,480
and I continued to drive, and then suddenly there are these men standing in the road.

570
00:46:08,480 --> 00:46:15,480
Upon getting into this tessalous wooded area spot, I suddenly saw a huge orange grove.

571
00:46:15,480 --> 00:46:24,480
Now this is interesting because both Betty and I consciously remembered somehow of seeing an orange ball in the road.

572
00:46:24,480 --> 00:46:25,480
Yes.

573
00:46:25,480 --> 00:46:30,480
But we could never go any further than somehow we could see, and always remember, an orange ball in the road,

574
00:46:30,480 --> 00:46:35,480
and our remark was that, well, it must have been the moon, and then we dismissed it.

575
00:46:35,480 --> 00:46:41,480
But now, under regressive treatment, I can see this orange ball diminishing in white,

576
00:46:41,480 --> 00:46:49,480
into an orange as a bright color, into a color color, where it eventually, the light is completely out, is just dark.

577
00:46:49,480 --> 00:46:54,480
And these men are standing in the road several hours a second, and he told me to halt.

578
00:46:54,480 --> 00:46:58,480
But while the car stopped, now the car stopped, and I am trying to get it going,

579
00:46:58,480 --> 00:47:05,480
and I don't get any immediate ignition, the lights are out, I'm very confused, I mean, I'm in a total state of confusion,

580
00:47:05,480 --> 00:47:10,480
and I started to get out of the car, I hit a tire iron that I had taken from the trunk of the car,

581
00:47:10,480 --> 00:47:17,480
further back on route 3, when we were watching this thing before we had arrived at Indian Air.

582
00:47:17,480 --> 00:47:23,480
And I tried to get to that, and the door was open, and there were these men standing by,

583
00:47:23,480 --> 00:47:28,480
and I thought, well, are they going to rob me? And the then one pulled me from the car, not in a violent way,

584
00:47:28,480 --> 00:47:35,480
but more as this fight was hardly complying. And I stepped from the car, where they literally dragged me,

585
00:47:35,480 --> 00:47:42,480
though I was in an upright position, down and around for the car and into the wood,

586
00:47:42,480 --> 00:47:49,480
and to where there is, I could see the dark outline of a physical structure kind of thing.

587
00:47:49,480 --> 00:47:57,480
Can you produce a moment, can you describe, are you able to describe what these men looked like?

588
00:47:57,480 --> 00:47:58,480
They were dressed.

589
00:47:58,480 --> 00:48:03,480
Well, when I saw them standing, they had lights in the car before the lights went out,

590
00:48:03,480 --> 00:48:11,480
they were in dark, similar kind of garment, and I called it a uniform, which I thought as they P-jacket.

591
00:48:11,480 --> 00:48:19,480
I also understand, Alan, that in critical situations, we continually try to put things into the frame of reference

592
00:48:19,480 --> 00:48:26,480
that we can identify with as a natural thing, so that I thought of the uniform being much like a Navy P-jacket.

593
00:48:26,480 --> 00:48:27,480
For me?

594
00:48:27,480 --> 00:48:28,480
Yes.

595
00:48:28,480 --> 00:48:29,480
May I interrupt just one second?

596
00:48:29,480 --> 00:48:30,480
Sure.

597
00:48:30,480 --> 00:48:38,480
Was the one of these six people, or creatures on the road, wearing a visor on a cap?

598
00:48:38,480 --> 00:48:39,480
Oh, no.

599
00:48:39,480 --> 00:48:40,480
Oh.

600
00:48:40,480 --> 00:48:49,480
I think that you had told me at one time that in the last partition of the bus, as you were looking up,

601
00:48:49,480 --> 00:48:52,480
one appeared to have a military cap on.

602
00:48:52,480 --> 00:48:54,480
Yes, but that you did not know recognized.

603
00:48:54,480 --> 00:48:56,480
No, I did not recognize any caps.

604
00:48:56,480 --> 00:48:57,480
Thank you.

605
00:48:57,480 --> 00:49:02,480
But while in the field at Indian Head, I described one another being with the binoculars,

606
00:49:02,480 --> 00:49:06,480
through the binoculars of that, that continued to stay at this panel glass,

607
00:49:06,480 --> 00:49:10,480
that having a military type visor cap.

608
00:49:10,480 --> 00:49:15,480
So, I was taken from the car, and I actually was very demented.

609
00:49:15,480 --> 00:49:22,480
And as I pointed out, Jack, towards the woods, and I was being told that no harm would come to me,

610
00:49:22,480 --> 00:49:24,480
and to keep my eyes closed.

611
00:49:24,480 --> 00:49:27,480
And I was then carried up a ramp.

612
00:49:27,480 --> 00:49:31,480
This is interesting because Betty had never mentioned ramp in her dreams.

613
00:49:31,480 --> 00:49:37,480
I was carried up a ramp where my feet struck a gate of high rise at a door, at the doorstep,

614
00:49:37,480 --> 00:49:39,480
where they bumped over this object.

615
00:49:39,480 --> 00:49:46,480
And this was sort of a fleeting thing of recognizing that my feet were bumping something, you might say.

616
00:49:46,480 --> 00:49:50,480
And I opened my eyes just fleetingly, and I could see this corridor.

617
00:49:50,480 --> 00:49:59,480
That curved around the inside of the glass, where the rooms were on the inner side of the corridor.

618
00:49:59,480 --> 00:50:05,480
I was carried past one door into another door, and there was this room with a pie shape,

619
00:50:05,480 --> 00:50:11,480
as I described it, much like a pie, with the point of the pie cut off.

620
00:50:11,480 --> 00:50:15,480
And there was this one table that was very small for my body.

621
00:50:15,480 --> 00:50:30,480
I'm about 5'8", where I got onto the table myself, and I am continually hearing this voice that is telling me that no harm is going to come to me.

622
00:50:30,480 --> 00:50:34,480
It's only a matter of a few tests that are going to be conducted.

623
00:50:34,480 --> 00:50:43,480
Just as some of the more or less remains calm, that the room will be over with, and I'll be about my business with no damage done.

624
00:50:43,480 --> 00:50:53,480
Now buddy, when you say you continually keep hearing this voice, it's a voice that you apparently are hearing with your mind, but you're not hearing anybody speak, are you?

625
00:50:53,480 --> 00:50:56,480
Well, I am hearing it much. I do it.

626
00:50:56,480 --> 00:51:06,480
Under deep hypnosis, I gave the doctor what I considered an analogy about explaining the circumstances and situations.

627
00:51:06,480 --> 00:51:16,480
Sometimes it's difficult to explain things in abstract terms to find the words to fit the picture, but I explained it to the doctor while I was in a deep trance by Dr. Freiman,

628
00:51:16,480 --> 00:51:27,480
that though I had a sense of awareness in deep trance, in the Dr. Valtemar, and he was sitting across from me, once I had been placed into a deep trance,

629
00:51:27,480 --> 00:51:34,480
I no longer knew that he actually was sitting across from me, but I knew that some way he was surrounded in the room.

630
00:51:34,480 --> 00:51:43,480
And I could hear his voice. I could hear his voice, but I couldn't tell if I was asked to point out in the direction where the voice was coming from.

631
00:51:43,480 --> 00:51:44,480
I wouldn't have been able to tell.

632
00:51:44,480 --> 00:51:45,480
I understand.

633
00:51:45,480 --> 00:51:49,480
Does this give you the feeling that I'm trying to survive at this time?

634
00:51:49,480 --> 00:51:52,480
You definitely did hear with your ears.

635
00:51:52,480 --> 00:51:53,480
Well, I could hear.

636
00:51:53,480 --> 00:51:54,480
Yes.

637
00:51:54,480 --> 00:51:55,480
All right.

638
00:51:56,480 --> 00:51:58,480
We get into the matter of, did they speak English?

639
00:51:58,480 --> 00:51:59,480
I don't know.

640
00:51:59,480 --> 00:52:03,480
I only know that I knew what was expected of me, and I complied.

641
00:52:03,480 --> 00:52:11,480
I thought of a willingness on my part and great fear and terror to comply with the belief that I had been assured that no harm was going to come to me,

642
00:52:11,480 --> 00:52:16,480
and I would go along with this, and virtually and hopefully to be on my way.

643
00:52:16,480 --> 00:52:20,480
In any case, you are totally without a will of your own, is that it?

644
00:52:20,480 --> 00:52:21,480
Correct.

645
00:52:21,480 --> 00:52:27,480
This is the best way to say I did not have any will of my own, but low resistance.

646
00:52:27,480 --> 00:52:32,480
So I won't be concerned about Betty's will or whereabouts.

647
00:52:32,480 --> 00:52:38,480
I might feel a little guilty as a husband to not be concerned about my life,

648
00:52:38,480 --> 00:52:45,480
but this is such a terrifying situation that I was only concerned about myself and I was being assured that I wasn't going to be harmed.

649
00:52:45,480 --> 00:52:55,480
So that I was based on this table where my trousers were removed and my shirt was pulled up towards my head,

650
00:52:55,480 --> 00:53:01,480
which would have made my back, my under shirt was pulled up along with it, where my back would have been there.

651
00:53:01,480 --> 00:53:14,480
And I was turned over on my back and my stomach as well as while I could feel what I called a finger going up and down the final column.

652
00:53:14,480 --> 00:53:17,480
And I could feel this, and I could feel it.

653
00:53:17,480 --> 00:53:24,480
You know, Alan, when I tell this, I still feel very uncomfortable.

654
00:53:24,480 --> 00:53:30,480
Yes, I can tell that as you describe the experience aboard the craft that you are very upset,

655
00:53:30,480 --> 00:53:34,480
and I sense that Betty is upset too. Is it true?

656
00:53:34,480 --> 00:53:40,480
I don't know if it's a term, but we do build up pressure on these characters.

657
00:53:40,480 --> 00:53:45,480
Yes, there's not a matter of being on the radio because you have been on before.

658
00:53:45,480 --> 00:53:46,480
Yes.

659
00:53:46,480 --> 00:53:52,480
So it does do something to your ability to recount this experience now.

660
00:53:52,480 --> 00:54:03,480
We have a copy also of the tapes of our under-regressive notices, and it must have taken a year before Betty and I could sit down and really listen to the entire contents.

661
00:54:03,480 --> 00:54:09,480
Now, while in the doctor's office when he played the tapes back, following this back into our conscious memory,

662
00:54:09,480 --> 00:54:13,480
this was the reason he decided to recall it, his own tape.

663
00:54:13,480 --> 00:54:17,480
Was this the method by which he fed this back to you?

664
00:54:17,480 --> 00:54:23,480
This was a part of the method. He also used certain post-apartic suggestions while we were in a train.

665
00:54:23,480 --> 00:54:34,480
Just by way of interest, how long did the entire treatment take from the time Dr. Simon began to treat you until you finished?

666
00:54:34,480 --> 00:54:39,480
Until January, until the early part of July.

667
00:54:39,480 --> 00:54:40,480
January through July?

668
00:54:40,480 --> 00:54:41,480
Yes.

669
00:54:41,480 --> 00:54:43,480
And this was, what, once every week?

670
00:54:43,480 --> 00:54:49,480
This was every week, every Saturday morning. Betty and I paid a visit to his office.

671
00:54:49,480 --> 00:54:52,480
May I pause for just a moment, Barney and Betty?

672
00:54:52,480 --> 00:55:00,480
We'll be back in just a moment to continue this fantastic, fascinating tale told to us tonight by Betty and Barney Hill.

673
00:55:00,480 --> 00:55:05,480
Speaking to us long distance from the residence at Portsmouth, New Hampshire.

674
00:55:05,480 --> 00:55:11,480
Earl, that is visiting with us tonight. Earl is a noted Cleveland ufologist and a documenter.

675
00:55:11,480 --> 00:55:17,480
And I have never seen Earl so quiet. On the other hand, you've never heard me shout out to this extent.

676
00:55:17,480 --> 00:55:28,480
I must say that I am enjoying this story as it is told so completely and so rationally by Betty and Barney Hill.

677
00:55:28,480 --> 00:55:29,480
Earl, do you want to say something?

678
00:55:29,480 --> 00:55:40,480
I would like to say that many times people ask me, both on radio or by the letter, like on where they can learn about things like this.

679
00:55:40,480 --> 00:55:45,480
Well, the best way to learn is to go to organizations where these things are discussed.

680
00:55:45,480 --> 00:55:52,480
In the Cleveland area, the Cleveland Ufology Project, one of the fine organizations that has existed for many years.

681
00:55:52,480 --> 00:55:59,480
And we meet the third Saturday of every month at 8 to 11 p.m.

682
00:55:59,480 --> 00:56:04,480
And this is the Encolon that's about to block beyond Snow Road on Pearl.

683
00:56:04,480 --> 00:56:14,480
My name is Eddie Zell and Douglas, listening to the Fascinating Tale, a fascinating story of Betty and Barney Hill and their two lost hours.

684
00:56:14,480 --> 00:56:23,480
I would like very much to convey to the audience my impression at this moment of Betty and Barney Hill.

685
00:56:23,480 --> 00:56:29,480
These are two extremely intelligent and sensitive human beings.

686
00:56:29,480 --> 00:56:37,480
And I find from this experience that I have a tendency to like them.

687
00:56:37,480 --> 00:56:41,480
I think that I would find them as friends if I knew them better.

688
00:56:41,480 --> 00:56:57,480
Let me say that the story that we are hearing is a story that is documented in the opinion of a noted Boston psychiatrist as being told by two people who implicitly believe it.

689
00:56:57,480 --> 00:57:00,480
And I think this is very important to remember.

690
00:57:00,480 --> 00:57:05,480
So back to you Barney and this experience of having been physically examined.

691
00:57:05,480 --> 00:57:13,480
Did you ever determine in your own mind what it may have been they were looking for, what they were trying to learn from you?

692
00:57:13,480 --> 00:57:22,480
No, I have not. I'd like to just go back and elaborate just briefly on your last remark about colors.

693
00:57:22,480 --> 00:57:28,480
This doesn't distress me when you understand why we have released this information.

694
00:57:28,480 --> 00:57:37,480
Number one, after the regressive diagnosis, we then decided that we would never let this go any further.

695
00:57:37,480 --> 00:57:43,480
It would all be continually investigated on the scientific level.

696
00:57:43,480 --> 00:57:49,480
Well, we have friends and so we would occasionally tell close friends and confidants.

697
00:57:49,480 --> 00:57:53,480
Well, they have friends and so to give a tell, they're friends and confidants.

698
00:57:53,480 --> 00:57:58,480
In a military town, the story eventually got out and it really spread.

699
00:57:58,480 --> 00:58:01,480
But this is only by word of mouth.

700
00:58:01,480 --> 00:58:07,480
And a reporter in Massachusetts heard of it one day and he decided to investigate.

701
00:58:07,480 --> 00:58:09,480
To the John Luttrell?

702
00:58:09,480 --> 00:58:18,480
Yes. And he called us to ask for verification of what he had pieced together and we named not to write the story.

703
00:58:18,480 --> 00:58:22,480
But the story was written anyway without our cooperation.

704
00:58:22,480 --> 00:58:25,480
And it's strange, newspaper people have a kind of a penchant for that.

705
00:58:25,480 --> 00:58:34,480
So we then began, this is when the pressure was on us because we then began getting the misconceptions of the newspaper article.

706
00:58:34,480 --> 00:58:40,480
People would ask, well now when you took the trip to Venus or when you were on Mars, what was it like on the moon?

707
00:58:40,480 --> 00:58:44,480
This upset me very badly because we had never said any of these things.

708
00:58:44,480 --> 00:58:52,480
And we had another visit with Dr. Simon and we discussed this thoroughly and he decided that for our well-being,

709
00:58:52,480 --> 00:58:58,480
it would be best for the total documentation to come out, the facts.

710
00:58:58,480 --> 00:59:02,480
And this is all we have censored and those are the release, all the facts,

711
00:59:02,480 --> 00:59:07,480
training to this entire experiment, the experience.

712
00:59:07,480 --> 00:59:10,480
And the reader would have to make their own decisions.

713
00:59:10,480 --> 00:59:14,480
So one can't believe the story. This is only natural.

714
00:59:14,480 --> 00:59:23,480
I would find it difficult to believe by itself if I heard of this kind of story so that it is the support of the regressive,

715
00:59:23,480 --> 00:59:33,480
the regression back to that period of time, the qualification of the characters that it was involved.

716
00:59:33,480 --> 00:59:40,480
These are the reasons that I can tonight talk to you over the phone and tell you about the documentation.

717
00:59:40,480 --> 00:59:47,480
Well then in a way, the fact that this story got out has, if anything, strengthened you, hasn't it?

718
00:59:47,480 --> 00:59:51,480
The fact that the story got out and then subsequently had to be documented.

719
00:59:51,480 --> 00:59:57,480
It is a full story with all the facts released as you know them and as you believe them to be.

720
00:59:57,480 --> 01:00:00,480
It has sort of strengthened you as an individual, hasn't it?

721
01:00:00,480 --> 01:00:04,480
Well, I don't know, I think I have miscutons about it occasionally.

722
01:00:04,480 --> 01:00:05,480
Really?

723
01:00:05,480 --> 01:00:10,480
Yes, sometimes I don't feel too happy about it and there are other times that I feel that well,

724
01:00:10,480 --> 01:00:15,480
the story was going to be told, it would have to be told, even if someone heard about it.

725
01:00:15,480 --> 01:00:18,480
It would have been written somehow or another.

726
01:00:18,480 --> 01:00:22,480
So these are just circumstances and this is it.

727
01:00:22,480 --> 01:00:32,480
But with this examination, I remember a talk at my teeth and this is the way I described it

728
01:00:32,480 --> 01:00:40,480
and also while on this position of being examined, I opened my eyes again statingly

729
01:00:40,480 --> 01:00:47,480
because I could hear a kind of noise of as if people or someone was talking.

730
01:00:47,480 --> 01:00:51,480
I opened my eyes and I looked and I saw these three short men

731
01:00:51,480 --> 01:00:56,480
and this is when I got a good look at the face and I immediately closed my eyes

732
01:00:56,480 --> 01:00:59,480
because what I saw was terrifying, my eyes standed.

733
01:00:59,480 --> 01:01:02,480
It doesn't mean that they were terrifying.

734
01:01:02,480 --> 01:01:05,480
Well, how would you describe what you saw?

735
01:01:05,480 --> 01:01:12,480
I saw this kind of grayish color and this is actually because for most people they know

736
01:01:12,480 --> 01:01:15,480
when you saw the little green men and they were not green men,

737
01:01:15,480 --> 01:01:20,480
they were a grayish metallic kind of gray in color.

738
01:01:20,480 --> 01:01:24,480
And I might also say that I'm quite sure they were not wearing a mask

739
01:01:24,480 --> 01:01:28,480
or rather any kind of apparatus over the head for breathing purposes

740
01:01:28,480 --> 01:01:33,480
because I could see what would have been about a thin line

741
01:01:33,480 --> 01:01:41,480
without a lip muscle that when parting was open, there was a membrane inside that spluttered

742
01:01:41,480 --> 01:01:47,480
as they really right at the end of the mouth itself.

743
01:01:47,480 --> 01:01:51,480
And this spluttered and this seemed to be a way that they communicated with one another

744
01:01:51,480 --> 01:01:57,480
with a very peculiar kind of mumbling, humming sound.

745
01:01:57,480 --> 01:02:06,480
And I also try to give an analogy here, the sound we have heard when someone in a commercial is speaking underwater

746
01:02:06,480 --> 01:02:13,480
and we have all been acquainted with it by the way, something under water and it has that kind of a sound.

747
01:02:13,480 --> 01:02:14,480
Goodly sound.

748
01:02:14,480 --> 01:02:21,480
The goodly sound and this was very battling and the head, the cranium was very large,

749
01:02:21,480 --> 01:02:26,480
the men are coming down towards the chin into a very small chin

750
01:02:26,480 --> 01:02:33,480
and the eyes were very very distinguishing because they were very large

751
01:02:33,480 --> 01:02:36,480
and they were very small in size.

752
01:02:36,480 --> 01:02:43,480
And I think that the front of the face only continues back, I did not notice the ears, I can't remember seeing the ears,

753
01:02:43,480 --> 01:02:48,480
but the eyes continue back where you might say our ears are located,

754
01:02:48,480 --> 01:02:52,480
which would have means that they were quite long and large inside.

755
01:02:52,480 --> 01:02:59,480
I would say that they were not like an oriental eye, but yet you might say that we would think of an oriental eye.

756
01:02:59,480 --> 01:03:05,480
Approximately I would say 4.5 to 5 feet in total height, that's all I've been asked.

757
01:03:05,480 --> 01:03:14,480
And also that there was the absence of the nose as we understand it, but just the nostrils and toothlets.

758
01:03:14,480 --> 01:03:21,480
No, there was an absence of the nose and just the nostrils and toothlets.

759
01:03:21,480 --> 01:03:29,480
Now, Betty, you described in your dream that you had more or less in your dreams

760
01:03:29,480 --> 01:03:38,480
reconstructed these individuals as human or as human types of people through the normal concept of identification perhaps.

761
01:03:38,480 --> 01:03:45,480
But now in your regressive hypnosis, how did you envision these people? How do you now recollect them?

762
01:03:45,480 --> 01:03:47,480
Are they similar to Barney?

763
01:03:47,480 --> 01:03:56,480
Yes, I think they are probably the most significant factor to me, the T-E-I.

764
01:03:56,480 --> 01:04:07,480
Now, I'm going to ask Earl Niff, who has a piece of information that neither of you, I don't believe,

765
01:04:07,480 --> 01:04:14,480
could possibly know about unless you have been in much closer contact with some NICAT people and some investigators,

766
01:04:14,480 --> 01:04:20,480
perhaps we realize, but I think it's very important now at this point, after this description of these creatures,

767
01:04:20,480 --> 01:04:31,480
to have Earl tell us about another experience that took place, I believe, a few years previous to yours in Brazil.

768
01:04:31,480 --> 01:04:34,480
Earl, can you very quickly tell Betty and Barney about it?

769
01:04:34,480 --> 01:04:39,480
I'm going to tell you a little bit about the woman by the name of Antonio Villas-Buervez,

770
01:04:39,480 --> 01:04:50,480
a 23-year-old chap. I learned about this through Carl Rensen, the woman who has, with her husband James,

771
01:04:50,480 --> 01:04:56,480
his Afro organization, the oldest organization in this kind of world, and this took place,

772
01:04:56,480 --> 01:05:08,480
this incident took place in Minas Gerais, Brazil at 1.30 am on the morning of October 15, 1957.

773
01:05:08,480 --> 01:05:20,480
It was a very strange event that took place and it somewhat parallels, in a way, what you folks have experienced.

774
01:05:20,480 --> 01:05:26,480
There are two nights of manifestations of strange light near the farm of his parents,

775
01:05:26,480 --> 01:05:33,480
and this was near this town of Francisco de Salos in the state of Minas Gerais, Brazil.

776
01:05:33,480 --> 01:05:39,480
The first two incidents were witnessed by Antonio's brother, Joa.

777
01:05:39,480 --> 01:05:46,480
This young man was plowing a tractor he was riding on in a field near his home,

778
01:05:46,480 --> 01:05:52,480
when his attention was arrested by what appeared to be a very bright star.

779
01:05:52,480 --> 01:05:59,480
This, again, you see, is a parallel to yours in the beginning, which he shortly realized,

780
01:05:59,480 --> 01:06:05,480
after Rizzo, who is now the star of all, that a brilliantly lit egg-shaped object approaching at high speed

781
01:06:05,480 --> 01:06:11,480
and shortly was hovering overhead at an hour or two of about 175 feet,

782
01:06:11,480 --> 01:06:14,480
and illuminates the ground with a bright red light.

783
01:06:14,480 --> 01:06:21,480
Antonio, more or less, panicked, but realized he couldn't escape the thing because of the soft cloud ground in the field,

784
01:06:21,480 --> 01:06:25,480
and so he sat there, rooted to his tractor-states, might say.

785
01:06:25,480 --> 01:06:31,480
He sat there, the object moved again, and settled slowly to the ground about 15 yards away,

786
01:06:31,480 --> 01:06:33,480
and he got a very good look at it.

787
01:06:33,480 --> 01:06:39,480
Now, it looked like an elongated egg, sort of a torpedo-shaped or a cigar-shaped,

788
01:06:39,480 --> 01:06:44,480
with small perpish lights all over it, a huge red light on the leading end,

789
01:06:44,480 --> 01:06:47,480
and three metal bars protruding from the end.

790
01:06:47,480 --> 01:06:55,480
And on the top of the object was something which rotated at high speed and gave off a sharp, fluorescent red light.

791
01:06:55,480 --> 01:07:02,480
This began to turn green the moment the object slowed, probably in preparation for landing.

792
01:07:02,480 --> 01:07:09,480
But as it slowed, the top became more visible and appeared as a round plate or squashed tubula.

793
01:07:09,480 --> 01:07:14,480
Three props or metal legs emerged from the underside of this craft,

794
01:07:14,480 --> 01:07:21,480
and at this point Antonio was thoroughly frightened and attempted to move the tractor away.

795
01:07:21,480 --> 01:07:24,480
And then the tractor quit and the lights went out.

796
01:07:24,480 --> 01:07:27,480
Now, this probably was due to electromagnetic force fields.

797
01:07:27,480 --> 01:07:31,480
He tried to stop the engine, but it was unsuccessful.

798
01:07:31,480 --> 01:07:34,480
And then he opened the door of the tractor, jumped out and started running.

799
01:07:34,480 --> 01:07:39,480
At this point, he was caught short by something that grasped his arm.

800
01:07:39,480 --> 01:07:46,480
As he turned to shake off the pursuer, he came face to face with a small figure dressed in gray striped suit

801
01:07:46,480 --> 01:07:53,480
with a strange helmet which entirely covered the head, showing only the eyes through a faceplate.

802
01:07:53,480 --> 01:07:59,480
There were tubes that led from the top of this helmet to a point on a suit at the back of it.

803
01:08:00,480 --> 01:08:03,480
Then Antonio pushed the creature and started running,

804
01:08:03,480 --> 01:08:09,480
and whereupon he was grabbed by three other creatures, all a little taller than the first one.

805
01:08:09,480 --> 01:08:12,480
He was then lifted and dragged to the ship.

806
01:08:12,480 --> 01:08:19,480
Now, as I remember Bonnie, when you were speaking before they were taking you up on this ramp,

807
01:08:19,480 --> 01:08:25,480
they more or less dragged you, and as I recall, to the toes of your shoe, more or less were scuffed, as I said.

808
01:08:25,480 --> 01:08:29,480
He occasionally called for help, even cursing his captors.

809
01:08:29,480 --> 01:08:39,480
Further on, he speaks of where sometime later, in fact, the door of this object opened.

810
01:08:39,480 --> 01:08:45,480
By the way, I might go back a little ways in the space that it was sort of a bed-like thing

811
01:08:45,480 --> 01:08:51,480
that if you were asked to lay the lie down on, and this was covered with a soft-grain material

812
01:08:51,480 --> 01:08:53,480
and situated in the center of the room.

813
01:08:53,480 --> 01:08:56,480
It was curiously humped up in the middle.

814
01:08:56,480 --> 01:09:01,480
It is then, while he was lying down, that he noted the presence of tiny holes in the walls,

815
01:09:01,480 --> 01:09:03,480
which were giving off a grayish vapor.

816
01:09:03,480 --> 01:09:08,480
Sometime later the door opened, and two of the men led a woman into the room,

817
01:09:08,480 --> 01:09:10,480
and then closed the door on left.

818
01:09:10,480 --> 01:09:13,480
Now, the woman is described in this manner.

819
01:09:13,480 --> 01:09:16,480
She was about four feet six inches tall.

820
01:09:16,480 --> 01:09:23,480
She was fair skinned, blue-eyed, and darkly outlined, wide-set, slanted eyes,

821
01:09:23,480 --> 01:09:26,480
which gave her the look of an ancient Egyptian painting.

822
01:09:26,480 --> 01:09:30,480
Her hair, however, was blonde and nearly white, you might say,

823
01:09:30,480 --> 01:09:36,480
and it was short, extended, and extended only to about an inch or two below the earlobes.

824
01:09:36,480 --> 01:09:40,480
This was part of the middle and turned under slightly.

825
01:09:40,480 --> 01:09:45,480
Her face was very broad through the cheekbones, which seemed to be quite pronounced,

826
01:09:45,480 --> 01:09:48,480
and tapered to a very point, small chin.

827
01:09:48,480 --> 01:09:55,480
Her nose appeared to be normal, but her mouth was only a slit, completely without lips.

828
01:09:55,480 --> 01:10:00,480
She was well-formed, and this was quite easy to see as she was completely naked.

829
01:10:00,480 --> 01:10:05,480
And on all, gave the genuine impression of a very beautiful woman.

830
01:10:05,480 --> 01:10:08,480
Now, the woman's purpose was instantly obvious,

831
01:10:08,480 --> 01:10:12,480
obvious for she set about to seduce Antonio, succeeding twice.

832
01:10:12,480 --> 01:10:17,480
After the second act was complete, the woman was called for by the two men and left the room.

833
01:10:17,480 --> 01:10:22,480
The just before leaving, she pointed to Antonio, then she pointed to her stomach,

834
01:10:22,480 --> 01:10:29,480
then pointed, then down toward the earth, and to flex heat off with the southern sky and smile.

835
01:10:29,480 --> 01:10:32,480
Then he was given his clothes and only stuffed his cigarette lighter,

836
01:10:32,480 --> 01:10:34,480
and furiously taken from the ship.

837
01:10:34,480 --> 01:10:38,480
But I thought you should know about this. There's more, but I don't want to take time to tell you.

838
01:10:38,480 --> 01:10:40,480
Has anybody told you about this incident at all?

839
01:10:40,480 --> 01:10:42,480
No, I've heard of it.

840
01:10:42,480 --> 01:10:45,480
Well, I don't know how you feel having the incident related to you,

841
01:10:45,480 --> 01:10:48,480
but there are some striking points of similarity,

842
01:10:48,480 --> 01:10:51,480
and both Earl and I were talking about this earlier this evening,

843
01:10:51,480 --> 01:10:58,480
and Earl pointed out that there could be, in all probability, no way for you to know this particular experience.

844
01:10:58,480 --> 01:11:00,480
I've heard of it.

845
01:11:00,480 --> 01:11:06,480
The only, this other part of this seduction, nothing like that to please, would be,

846
01:11:06,480 --> 01:11:16,480
but I described a metal, a copper-like object being placed over my lower, over the groin.

847
01:11:16,480 --> 01:11:24,480
Yes, and I could feel it being placed, and as if there was some kind of,

848
01:11:24,480 --> 01:11:33,480
I was thinking of the word vibration, but this doesn't describe what I am trying to say,

849
01:11:33,480 --> 01:11:41,480
as if something was movable in a soft way, and it was placed over me, and it was removed.

850
01:11:41,480 --> 01:11:48,480
I don't know the reason for it, but this is where I later developed the words that came out of my body.

851
01:11:48,480 --> 01:11:55,480
And Betty, as I understand it, you, they were interested in performing what they described to you,

852
01:11:55,480 --> 01:11:58,480
you say, as a pregnancy test.

853
01:11:58,480 --> 01:12:05,480
Well, this is what they called it. This was the, uh, the setting of the eagles like,

854
01:12:05,480 --> 01:12:08,480
up around this or sometimes into my navel.

855
01:12:08,480 --> 01:12:14,480
And, uh, it was painful at first, you say?

856
01:12:14,480 --> 01:12:17,480
It was quite painful, yes.

857
01:12:17,480 --> 01:12:22,480
And, uh, I was very upset, or even when I realized what they were going to do,

858
01:12:22,480 --> 01:12:24,480
and asked them not to do that.

859
01:12:24,480 --> 01:12:31,480
And, uh, they seemed to think it was not fair, and there seemed to be quite some tries, but it did.

860
01:12:31,480 --> 01:12:32,480
Yes.

861
01:12:32,480 --> 01:12:36,480
And the man I, the one I called the leader,

862
01:12:36,480 --> 01:12:42,480
looked at you and infunded my eyes, and the pain went away.

863
01:12:42,480 --> 01:12:50,480
I see. Now, uh, when the pain went away, did you ever feel any discomfort or pain afterward in any of your conscious memory?

864
01:12:50,480 --> 01:12:52,480
Oh, no.

865
01:12:52,480 --> 01:12:53,480
No discomfort.

866
01:12:53,480 --> 01:12:55,480
No, not that I could remember.

867
01:12:55,480 --> 01:13:00,480
Did you feel impelled at any time to have yourself examined by a doctor?

868
01:13:00,480 --> 01:13:02,480
Of course this all came later, didn't it?

869
01:13:02,480 --> 01:13:09,480
Yes, this was, uh, the experience was all happened in 1961, the analysis was in 1964.

870
01:13:09,480 --> 01:13:10,480
Uh, so...

871
01:13:10,480 --> 01:13:15,480
And, uh, the, the week-long time lapse, and I wasn't aware of this.

872
01:13:15,480 --> 01:13:16,480
I see.

873
01:13:16,480 --> 01:13:19,480
And I never did make a point to a doctor about it.

874
01:13:19,480 --> 01:13:30,480
And, uh, so you weren't even aware of that part of the experience until you were, several years later, were, uh, regressed, hypnotically.

875
01:13:30,480 --> 01:13:31,480
That's right.

876
01:13:31,480 --> 01:13:34,480
Barney, what about the rash on your back?

877
01:13:34,480 --> 01:13:35,480
Uh, not really.

878
01:13:35,480 --> 01:13:37,480
These were warts on your right.

879
01:13:37,480 --> 01:13:38,480
On the right?

880
01:13:38,480 --> 01:13:39,480
Yes.

881
01:13:39,480 --> 01:13:51,480
Uh, the, uh, doctor took the position that these warts were, or I might say could have been of, of a natural, uh, development.

882
01:13:51,480 --> 01:13:58,480
Well, I'll tell you, that's the heck of a question to ever ask, because doctors haven't found out yet for sure what it caused my retinal organs, right?

883
01:13:58,480 --> 01:13:59,480
Yes, I guess so.

884
01:13:59,480 --> 01:14:04,480
So I guess we really can't answer that question, and we can't logically expect the doctor to as yet.

885
01:14:04,480 --> 01:14:17,480
I asked the leader where he came from, and he stepped over the back of the wall, and put his hand on the wall, and these panels, through backs, and a map came out, which I believe would be called a sky map.

886
01:14:17,480 --> 01:14:18,480
Mm-hmm.

887
01:14:18,480 --> 01:14:27,480
And while the map was exposed, he asked me if I knew where the Earth was, and, uh, for that time I did not know there.

888
01:14:27,480 --> 01:14:35,480
And he asked a little, uh, who's touched it with me, and he said, I did not know what asked the map.

889
01:14:35,480 --> 01:14:42,480
He did not say just where he came from, on it, but I noticed certain things about it.

890
01:14:42,480 --> 01:14:51,480
I did ask him to list lines, uh, heavy, solid lines, and then a lighter, solid lines, and broken lines.

891
01:14:51,480 --> 01:14:52,480
Yes.

892
01:14:52,480 --> 01:15:03,480
And I asked him the meaning of these. He said the heavy lines were trade lines, and the light lines were places that they go sometimes.

893
01:15:03,480 --> 01:15:04,480
He said they were...

894
01:15:04,480 --> 01:15:06,480
The load of lines were expeditions.

895
01:15:06,480 --> 01:15:08,480
I see. Trade lines.

896
01:15:08,480 --> 01:15:09,480
Trade lines.

897
01:15:09,480 --> 01:15:10,480
I see.

898
01:15:10,480 --> 01:15:11,480
Here.

899
01:15:11,480 --> 01:15:17,480
And, and, incidentally, it should be mentioned that, uh, that your sketches appear in the book The Interrupted Journey.

900
01:15:17,480 --> 01:15:18,480
Yes, thank you.

901
01:15:18,480 --> 01:15:26,480
And, uh, this would be a, uh, I think, uh, a, uh, a more complete way of feeding an answer to that question.

902
01:15:26,480 --> 01:15:33,480
Perhaps both Betty and Barney will tell us how they feel about it and what they believe it to be.

903
01:15:33,480 --> 01:15:44,480
Shortly after the sighting, uh, and after the investigation by the scientists that became involved in the, uh, experience that Betty and I had,

904
01:15:44,480 --> 01:15:54,480
uh, we, where they noticed that this thing had been amnesia, uh, experienced by both of us, uh, we visited a psychiatrist in Massachusetts,

905
01:15:54,480 --> 01:16:05,480
and, uh, he, uh, and I also mentioned how he had suggested that this was a very recent experience, and possibly amnesia would open up any natural way where we would,

906
01:16:05,480 --> 01:16:08,480
in the course of time, begin, uh, begin to remember.

907
01:16:08,480 --> 01:16:09,480
Yeah.

908
01:16:09,480 --> 01:16:13,480
We never did this resultant later in our going to, uh, Dr. Simon.

909
01:16:13,480 --> 01:16:25,480
Well, as I understand it, I think the implication of the question, uh, may be slightly obscured, but, uh, what he really wanted to know, uh, was, uh, is there a history of any mental disorder?

910
01:16:25,480 --> 01:16:27,480
Uh, no, there is no history of any mental disorder.

911
01:16:27,480 --> 01:16:32,480
And you did, you had never, uh, previously either of you had an occasion to visit a psychiatrist.

912
01:16:32,480 --> 01:16:33,480
No.

913
01:16:33,480 --> 01:16:35,480
All right, I think that's really what the man wants to know.

914
01:16:35,480 --> 01:16:55,480
Now, I'd like to also briefly, um, uh, make a statement concerning, as you point out, the matter of somatic, concerning the word of a documentary, documentation, that, uh, what we mean when we say documented is that there is the existence of the tapes of Betty and I both

915
01:16:56,480 --> 01:16:58,480
Uh,

916
01:17:11,480 --> 01:17:12,480
Oh, that's very good.

917
01:17:26,480 --> 01:17:35,480
Uh, that there was a great demand for people to want to know more because Betty and I were in telling and told this reporter who wrote the story.

918
01:17:35,480 --> 01:17:37,480
This demand became very great.

919
01:17:37,480 --> 01:17:51,480
There was tremendous pressure, plus I thought, well, how much of the kind of remarks that was stated untrue, fantasies that attributed to, uh, what we were supposed to have been doing when we had never said we had done any of those particular things.

920
01:17:51,480 --> 01:17:57,480
And, uh, we then, in releasing this material, contracts were drawn up.

921
01:17:57,480 --> 01:18:15,480
This is quite a standard procedure because, uh, once we became a part of exposure this way, obviously, uh, it could not be expected of us, Betty and I, to let our names go out this way without some kind of, uh, of, um,

922
01:18:15,480 --> 01:18:25,480
Uh, I think, uh, I think, uh, any question is probably well put, but I think it also needs to be pointed out that if I had, uh,

923
01:18:25,480 --> 01:18:35,480
And quite obvious tomorrow I'll have to be out there, uh, to the very mile point at ground, uh, after having been up, uh, to, uh, to what I wanted.

924
01:18:35,480 --> 01:18:50,480
Let me point out this, too. I think, uh, I think, uh, uh, I think the question is probably well put, but I, I think it also needs to be pointed out that if I had found myself experiencing this kind of thing in my own consciousness,

925
01:18:50,480 --> 01:19:04,480
And if I had been compelled to go to a psychiatrist and to spend some seven months, uh, in psychiatric care, uh, is there any, I presume, that Dr. Simon does not provide a free service to anyone?

926
01:19:04,480 --> 01:19:14,480
Uh, Betty and I paid for those services seven months where we both were, we'd regret, this would have meant that both of us were paying the hourly rate.

927
01:19:14,480 --> 01:19:35,480
If Mary had something, or all that we'd like to say, that the 1961s are up until, really up until the present time, Betty and I were trying to find out as much information, and as much, uh, we could scientifically develop this experience.

928
01:19:35,480 --> 01:19:36,480
Yes.

929
01:19:36,480 --> 01:19:52,480
Uh, we went to scientific conventions, uh, we went to scientists, and we spent a great many hours doing this, and not only that, we spent hundreds and hundreds of our own money in our own investigation of this.

930
01:19:52,480 --> 01:20:10,480
Well, I was just going to add to that, Betty, that I, uh, if I had experienced all of this as you have, uh, I, uh, I would have, and also had, uh, the fortune, the good fortune of having that selling author choose to document the experience in a book.

931
01:20:10,480 --> 01:20:26,480
Uh, I would have no compunction about signing my name to a contract either, and I, I would hesitate to choose anybody at random in this society who would, incidentally. I think that the, uh, I think that the question was well put, and I believe it to have been well answered.

932
01:20:26,480 --> 01:20:27,480
Sure.

933
01:20:27,480 --> 01:20:30,480
Well, I didn't discern any noise.

934
01:20:30,480 --> 01:20:31,480
Betty, did you?

935
01:20:31,480 --> 01:20:33,480
No, I didn't either.

936
01:20:33,480 --> 01:20:36,480
Well, this was the object coming in towards us.

937
01:20:36,480 --> 01:20:41,480
First of all, it appeared, uh, like a solid yellow light, like a star.

938
01:20:41,480 --> 01:20:46,480
And then as it came in closer, it gave a treat-range effect.

939
01:20:46,480 --> 01:20:51,480
When it was coming in towards us, I had the impression that it was flowing down.

940
01:20:51,480 --> 01:20:54,480
Uh, also there was a very erratic, slight counter.

941
01:20:54,480 --> 01:20:57,480
And this was another thing that I noticed.

942
01:20:57,480 --> 01:21:15,480
First of all, there was no change in color. It was the treat-range effect, and then as it came in closer and we saw the window, we had the impression, I don't know how true it is, but we had the impression that the clock was spinning, and it was actually the window that we were seeing.

943
01:21:15,480 --> 01:21:21,480
It was a gradual change, diminishing from orange into dull, up, and then black.

944
01:21:21,480 --> 01:21:28,480
There was a different kind of, uh, symbol than I'd ever seen before.

945
01:21:28,480 --> 01:21:33,480
There was no resemblance to, uh, writing or printing.

946
01:21:33,480 --> 01:21:35,480
I couldn't say what it was.

947
01:21:35,480 --> 01:21:44,480
The printing went up in far, out of lettering, and I couldn't say lettering, the symbol, went up and down, rather than across.

948
01:21:44,480 --> 01:21:48,480
Was the binding Betty in any way similar to our books?

949
01:21:48,480 --> 01:21:54,480
Well, I think I've only had it for a few moments, and I didn't really have too much chance to record.

950
01:21:54,480 --> 01:21:56,480
So at the last, did it look like April?

951
01:21:56,480 --> 01:21:58,480
I would say it looked like a book.

952
01:21:58,480 --> 01:22:00,480
Oh, I never thought about that.

953
01:22:00,480 --> 01:22:03,480
Um, this was late.

954
01:22:03,480 --> 01:22:11,480
I would assume that it probably would be about the same late as one of our books, who I probably might have noticed a difference.

955
01:22:11,480 --> 01:22:19,480
Did it look to you that either the book had been mechanically reproduced as one of our books might be, or could it have been hand-lettered?

956
01:22:19,480 --> 01:22:27,480
Did it appear more, uh, artistically done than might be done by a machine, for example?

957
01:22:27,480 --> 01:22:39,480
Uh, that's just because you answered, but I would say that it didn't look, uh, as though it would be something that we would do in handwriting.

958
01:22:39,480 --> 01:22:41,480
Well, maybe it would be more like a published book.

959
01:22:41,480 --> 01:22:50,480
You know, maybe the whole line of questioning along, in this way, as far as publishing or hand-lettered, would be illogical.

960
01:22:50,480 --> 01:23:00,480
I would assume that another more advanced intelligence would at least have been able to discover the principle or the means of publishing books,

961
01:23:00,480 --> 01:23:05,480
and that if the book was indeed a book, then it was therefore done mechanically.

962
01:23:05,480 --> 01:23:06,480
Yes.

963
01:23:06,480 --> 01:23:11,480
Uh, I would like to add that Dr. Simon did not say he did not believe.

964
01:23:11,480 --> 01:23:13,480
I didn't read that anywhere either.

965
01:23:13,480 --> 01:23:22,480
Uh, what Dr. Simon has hypothesized is that there is no possibility. This is only a theory that he would say is a theory.

966
01:23:22,480 --> 01:23:23,480
Yes.

967
01:23:23,480 --> 01:23:33,480
Uh, there is the possibility that there has been a dream transference, that Betty had a dream, and then I observed the dream and it has become a part of my reality.

968
01:23:33,480 --> 01:23:41,480
Uh, well, in having how this could be done, there are several theories governing this matter.

969
01:23:41,480 --> 01:23:46,480
Uh, number one, it was, uh, talk first that Betty talked in her sleep,

970
01:23:46,480 --> 01:23:50,480
but we would have to presume that she was talking complete sentences.

971
01:23:50,480 --> 01:23:59,480
Uh, I would have been asleep, and then, uh, I would have overheard her talking, and this way, I would have, uh, would have absorbed it.

972
01:23:59,480 --> 01:24:17,480
Uh, well, uh, this was obviously, uh, unsound to believe, because I was employed at night at this time in Boston, commuting daily or nightly from Portmouth to Boston, where I worked that night, so Betty would have had her dreams with me not being there.

973
01:24:17,480 --> 01:24:37,480
It might also be added that if this were this kind of transference, which Dr. Simon incidentally notes is exceedingly rare, um, it would also have to be pointed out that, that, uh, in Betty's dreams, there is, there are points of difference between the dreams and between the

974
01:24:37,480 --> 01:24:44,480
hypnotic regression, um, and I think, uh, it, it is much as these points of difference exist.

975
01:24:44,480 --> 01:24:51,480
I think this discounts the, uh, this discounts the theory that it could be a transference even more.

976
01:24:51,480 --> 01:24:59,480
Uh, I am willing to accept the dream transference. I can accept it, but then I have to ask a question myself.

977
01:24:59,480 --> 01:25:08,480
What happened to the two lost powers plus the doctor does believe that we saw some aerial phenomenon?

978
01:25:08,480 --> 01:25:10,480
Also the lie, uh,

979
01:25:10,480 --> 01:25:19,480
I think Dr. Simon's disclaimer was a great deal more subtle, and I think, um, uh, more evasive than this gentlemen's statement.

980
01:25:19,480 --> 01:25:29,480
I don't recall, uh, uh, precisely what Dr. Simon said in either of the look articles. I recall having read them, and I don't, I, uh, they don't come back to my memory.

981
01:25:29,480 --> 01:25:39,480
And I would like to say too that there were others in the area who had seen the UFOs, so that part of it is not questioned, and of course the spot on the left is not.

982
01:25:39,480 --> 01:25:41,480
Yes, by other people.

983
01:25:41,480 --> 01:25:49,480
Well, first I'd like to, uh, add my part to that, and then Betty, at her, uh, I did not carry on a conversation with these creatures, and at best, that I could describe, I was treated, uh, very indifferent.

984
01:25:49,480 --> 01:25:56,480
The best, uh, that I could say is that I was not, uh, very indifferent.

985
01:25:56,480 --> 01:26:03,480
Uh, and we decided to capture it with, uh, the intentions of not harming it, but just to, uh, look at it and observe it, see what it's like, and then release it.

986
01:26:03,480 --> 01:26:08,480
Uh, there was complete indifference to, uh, capture it, and then release it.

987
01:26:08,480 --> 01:26:21,480
And, uh, we decided to capture it with, uh, the intentions of not harming it, but just to, uh, look at it and observe it, see what it's like, and then release it.

988
01:26:22,480 --> 01:26:30,480
Uh, there was complete indifference to, uh, to, uh, me as an intellectual equal to them.

989
01:26:30,480 --> 01:26:49,480
This is, and plus I, you have to also realize that under, uh, that if the regressive hypnosis is factual, if this is an experience that Betty and I regressively had lived, then I would have been in a subdued, uh, situation at the time that I would have been on board this past.

990
01:26:50,480 --> 01:27:10,480
Uh, Barney, I would like to ask you a quickie too before I leave, and that is, of course, many contactees, as we referred to them, they'll say, well, we've been chosen, but do you personally believe, and you and Betty believe, that you were, uh, chosen, or by these space creatures, or do you feel that if Alan or I had been there, that this would have happened to us instead?

991
01:27:10,480 --> 01:27:15,480
I think if you had been there and had done what we had done, it would have happened to you.

992
01:27:15,480 --> 01:27:16,480
Yes.

993
01:27:16,480 --> 01:27:25,480
And Betty and I, after she had seen this light, uh, moving through the heavens, that would change order to my attention, and we continued to drive.

994
01:27:25,480 --> 01:27:28,480
I think that would have been the only thing we would have seen.

995
01:27:28,480 --> 01:27:37,480
I really believe that by stopping the car occasionally, opening the door, starting the home light to go on, we drew attention to, uh, to us.

996
01:27:37,480 --> 01:27:38,480
Yes.

997
01:27:38,480 --> 01:27:41,480
And it was that kind of a, uh, of a, uh, thing.

998
01:27:41,480 --> 01:27:44,480
Uh, we weren't chosen by any, I don't believe that.

999
01:27:44,480 --> 01:27:45,480
I believe that way too.

1000
01:27:45,480 --> 01:27:46,480
I'm glad you said that.

1001
01:27:46,480 --> 01:27:47,480
All right.

1002
01:27:47,480 --> 01:27:48,480
Thank you.

1003
01:27:48,480 --> 01:27:49,480
Thank you, Earl, and good night.

1004
01:27:49,480 --> 01:27:50,480
Good night, Earl.

1005
01:27:50,480 --> 01:27:51,480
Good night, Earl.

1006
01:27:51,480 --> 01:27:52,480
Good night, Alan.

1007
01:27:52,480 --> 01:27:53,480
Good night, Betty.

1008
01:27:53,480 --> 01:27:54,480
Good night, everybody.

1009
01:27:54,480 --> 01:28:00,480
We're gonna go on now for just a few more minutes, but the Air Force called it Jupiter.

1010
01:28:00,480 --> 01:28:02,480
Is that right, Betty?

1011
01:28:02,480 --> 01:28:03,480
Yes, this one.

1012
01:28:03,480 --> 01:28:04,480
I think, Betty.

1013
01:28:04,480 --> 01:28:05,480
Well, they gave several explanations.

1014
01:28:05,480 --> 01:28:10,480
I believe, dear, we'll see how that one time will come.

1015
01:28:10,480 --> 01:28:13,480
Inversion was one of them, wasn't it?

1016
01:28:13,480 --> 01:28:14,480
Yes, it was.

1017
01:28:14,480 --> 01:28:17,480
Possibility of an air invasion of a planet Jupiter.

1018
01:28:17,480 --> 01:28:23,480
And I believe that the last report was, uh, inconsistent evidence.

1019
01:28:23,480 --> 01:28:24,480
Mm-hmm.

1020
01:28:24,480 --> 01:28:25,480
All right.

1021
01:28:25,480 --> 01:28:29,480
It's interesting to know now that the Air Force has finally signed off.

1022
01:28:29,480 --> 01:28:35,480
I'm sure everyone is aware of this and is awarded a $300,000 grant to the University of Colorado,

1023
01:28:35,480 --> 01:28:41,480
who here and after will handle these cases and provide the documentation, as of now the

1024
01:28:41,480 --> 01:28:44,480
Air Force is definitely out of the fire.

1025
01:28:44,480 --> 01:28:46,480
At least where you both are concerned.

1026
01:28:46,480 --> 01:28:50,480
You either of you, I think perhaps Betty may be better able to answer that.

1027
01:28:50,480 --> 01:28:51,480
I think so.

1028
01:28:51,480 --> 01:28:54,480
I only described the table that I was playing on as being hot.

1029
01:28:54,480 --> 01:28:55,480
Mm-hmm.

1030
01:28:55,480 --> 01:29:02,480
Actually, I could not say whether the walls were steel or plastic or just what they were.

1031
01:29:02,480 --> 01:29:06,480
But I would say that the sun kind of, uh, never looked sun kind.

1032
01:29:06,480 --> 01:29:08,480
Or it might have been a hot glass.

1033
01:29:08,480 --> 01:29:09,480
Were you aware of any color?

1034
01:29:09,480 --> 01:29:10,480
No.

1035
01:29:10,480 --> 01:29:11,480
You were not?

1036
01:29:11,480 --> 01:29:12,480
It was very barren.

1037
01:29:12,480 --> 01:29:13,480
It was barren.

1038
01:29:13,480 --> 01:29:14,480
Yes.

1039
01:29:14,480 --> 01:29:19,480
The only thing I noticed, Alan, is that there seems to be a light system seem to have,

1040
01:29:19,480 --> 01:29:26,480
of an indirect lighting system where I did not notice any bulb, but it was just light.

1041
01:29:26,480 --> 01:29:30,480
I have a couple of questions I want to ask both Barney and Betty.

1042
01:29:30,480 --> 01:29:32,480
And, uh, then we're going to close the program.

1043
01:29:32,480 --> 01:29:36,480
Betty and Barney, how do you both personally feel?

1044
01:29:36,480 --> 01:29:43,480
Do you accept the truth of what you believe as the truth?

1045
01:29:43,480 --> 01:29:52,480
Alan, based on the evidence of the regressive hypnosis, I can only say that now the trip

1046
01:29:52,480 --> 01:29:57,480
seems like to me a continuous trip where there is not the interruption.

1047
01:29:57,480 --> 01:30:04,480
Where it is as if I had taken a trip from here to Philadelphia and am consciously aware

1048
01:30:04,480 --> 01:30:07,480
of all the places I would pass.

1049
01:30:07,480 --> 01:30:09,480
Then, on the stops I would make?

1050
01:30:09,480 --> 01:30:14,480
Then the information you now have as a result of the hypnotic regression seems like another,

1051
01:30:14,480 --> 01:30:16,480
almost a fantasy to you.

1052
01:30:16,480 --> 01:30:17,480
How about me?

1053
01:30:17,480 --> 01:30:22,480
The information you have as a result of, do I understand you to say now that the entire

1054
01:30:22,480 --> 01:30:25,480
trip seems now as a whole cloth?

1055
01:30:25,480 --> 01:30:26,480
Yes.

1056
01:30:26,480 --> 01:30:27,480
Everything that happened?

1057
01:30:27,480 --> 01:30:29,480
There's no longer the inner pressures apparently.

1058
01:30:29,480 --> 01:30:35,480
My author has, uh, well, I can say healed because it is bothering me.

1059
01:30:35,480 --> 01:30:36,480
I see.

1060
01:30:36,480 --> 01:30:40,480
And apparently there must have been something that created this tension, that has been

1061
01:30:40,480 --> 01:30:45,480
dissipated as a result of the hypnotherapy and the therapy used by Dr.

1062
01:30:45,480 --> 01:30:47,480
Then you accept this?

1063
01:30:47,480 --> 01:30:49,480
I have to accept it.

1064
01:30:49,480 --> 01:30:50,480
You know, Betty?

1065
01:30:50,480 --> 01:30:52,480
As much as I find it difficult to do.

1066
01:30:52,480 --> 01:30:54,480
Betty, what about you?

1067
01:30:54,480 --> 01:30:57,480
I also accept it.

1068
01:30:57,480 --> 01:30:59,480
I think that, uh, when Dr.

1069
01:30:59,480 --> 01:31:07,480
Financier first discussed the probability of a dream transference, I liked that.

1070
01:31:07,480 --> 01:31:13,480
Because, please, the business is a very frightening, upsetting experience.

1071
01:31:13,480 --> 01:31:19,480
So I would say now, the emotionally, in the beginning, would have the same effect as

1072
01:31:19,480 --> 01:31:22,480
being involved in a serious automobile accident.

1073
01:31:22,480 --> 01:31:24,480
This is my feeling about it.

1074
01:31:24,480 --> 01:31:25,480
Yes.

1075
01:31:25,480 --> 01:31:31,480
And so with this dream transference theory, I could say to myself that I could begin

1076
01:31:31,480 --> 01:31:32,480
it.

1077
01:31:32,480 --> 01:31:34,480
That it was nothing but a dream.

1078
01:31:34,480 --> 01:31:37,480
And I kept trying to tell myself that.

1079
01:31:37,480 --> 01:31:41,480
But, uh, I could only do this for a shot.

1080
01:31:41,480 --> 01:31:47,480
You know, then I had the feeling that I was just kidding myself.

1081
01:31:47,480 --> 01:31:51,480
And so it is this sort of man-to-man reality.

1082
01:31:51,480 --> 01:31:54,480
I really believe it actually happened.

1083
01:31:54,480 --> 01:31:59,480
The experience that you have heard tonight, ladies and gentlemen, from Betty and Barney Hill,

1084
01:31:59,480 --> 01:32:06,480
is an experience that I, and also Dr. Simon, believe these people implicitly accept this

1085
01:32:06,480 --> 01:32:08,480
having happened to them.

1086
01:32:08,480 --> 01:32:12,480
And it's interesting to know what Dr. Simon says in his introduction to his book.

1087
01:32:12,480 --> 01:32:18,480
He says, in cases like the Hills, hypnosis can be the key to a locked room, the amnesic period.

1088
01:32:18,480 --> 01:32:23,480
Under hypnosis, experience buried in amnesia may be recalled in a much shorter time than

1089
01:32:23,480 --> 01:32:26,480
in the normal course of the psychotherapeutic process.

1090
01:32:26,480 --> 01:32:31,480
Nevertheless, there is little produced under or by hypnosis that is not possible without.

1091
01:32:31,480 --> 01:32:37,480
But charisma, hypnosis, is tended to foster the belief that hypnosis is the magical and

1092
01:32:37,480 --> 01:32:39,480
royal road to truth.

1093
01:32:39,480 --> 01:32:44,480
In one sense, this is so, but it must be understood, as Dr. Simon, that hypnosis is a pathway to

1094
01:32:44,480 --> 01:32:47,480
the truth as it is felt and understood by the patient.

1095
01:32:47,480 --> 01:32:50,480
The truth is what he believes to be the truth.

1096
01:32:50,480 --> 01:32:54,480
And this may or may not be confident with the ultimate non-personal truth.

1097
01:32:54,480 --> 01:32:57,480
Most frequently, it is.

1098
01:32:57,480 --> 01:33:03,480
And I think that's a very interesting note to carry with us as we thank Betty and Barney

1099
01:33:03,480 --> 01:33:06,480
Hill for this fascinating two hours tonight.

1100
01:33:06,480 --> 01:33:10,480
I am very, very grateful to you, and I hope that if I ever get up to New Hampshire that

1101
01:33:10,480 --> 01:33:12,480
I'll have the opportunity to meet with you.

1102
01:33:12,480 --> 01:33:15,480
Colin, I certainly would enjoy having you visit with us.

1103
01:33:15,480 --> 01:33:19,480
We have a beautiful area here, and we could take the trip up to this section.

1104
01:33:19,480 --> 01:33:25,480
I have located the spot, but we never knew of this location until after we had been

1105
01:33:25,480 --> 01:33:27,480
regressed back in that period of time.

1106
01:33:27,480 --> 01:33:33,480
And now we have found what we believe strongly is the abduction point.

1107
01:33:33,480 --> 01:33:38,480
And we both came to this conclusion, you might say, as we were going back over this area,

1108
01:33:38,480 --> 01:33:42,480
and it seems as if we have been there before, you might say.

1109
01:33:42,480 --> 01:33:43,480
Yes.

1110
01:33:43,480 --> 01:33:45,480
Well, I would look forward to that, Betty and Barney.

1111
01:33:45,480 --> 01:33:47,480
Both of you, thank you ever so much.

1112
01:33:47,480 --> 01:33:51,480
I know you have an early day starting for you tomorrow over at the post office, and I

1113
01:33:51,480 --> 01:33:54,480
do want to thank you again, and all best wishes to both of you.

1114
01:33:54,480 --> 01:33:55,480
Thank you.

1115
01:33:55,480 --> 01:33:56,480
Thank you, Betty.

1116
01:33:56,480 --> 01:33:57,480
Thank you, Barney, and good night.